[csglinux]

Thank you @rantng - I wouldn't have found those posts without your help

I think the moral of the story, for every IEM on the planet, is to do lots and lots of tip rolling. I've got IEMs I've owned for years that still surprise me when I put new tips on them.
I don't know how much useful advice anybody can give to others on tips though. I like the Cp100 that @subguy812 mentions - they seem to fit me well on most IEMs - but
with everybody having different-shaped ears...?

I did notice one of the vent ports looks like it might sit right up against the ear-canal opening. Anybody tried taping over it to see the effect of blocking it?

 

[csglinux]

Hey buddy, our showroom is still open by appointment! Feel free to hit us up about trying the Luna. Foot traffic has been super down for obvious reasons so if you want to come in for a private demo with our Luna feel free.

Good to hear from you Alan! I hope you guys are all well? I miss you all (For those that don't know, TSAV is a super-fun place to visit!)
I'll be back one day. Soon, hopefully. Not right now though. If the wife catches me coming home with a pack of toilet roll, that's one thing. Far more dangerous to come back with yet another IEM

 

[rantng]

Thank you man

No, thank you for the comprehensive tip rolling session.

 

[TSAVAlan]

Good to hear from you Alan! I hope you guys are all well? I miss you all (For those that don't know, TSAV is a super-fun place to visit!)
I'll be back one day. Soon, hopefully. Not right now though. If the wife catches me coming home with a pack of toilet roll, that's one thing. Far more dangerous to come back with yet another IEM

Hey my man, we are doing well! All save and healthy here. The office has been slimmed down to those who can stay home and work from home are staying busy.

We are hoping for things to calm down soon and people start getting comfortable to go out. But for sure hope you can come out to the store when you and your wife is ready to come in!

 

[Frankie D]

Many thanks @DUNU-Topsound
I completely understand your pre-amble w.r.t. covid-19. You're very wise to be cautious. But it seems we have the minority view. Most people where I live are out protesting for their constitutional right to drown in their own lung fluids. (And of course, to be able to pass on that experience to their local grocery-store workers and health-care providers.)

I signed up for the tour, but there was no option for me to request a specific slot. It would be awesome if you could squeeze me in while the tour unit is still relatively close to me?!? If not, I understand. I did sign up very, very late.

What has me curious about this earphone is the claimed difference between measurements and impressions in the bass. The treble I'd understand as we have differing canal lengths, resonant peaks, etc. But I've never encountered discrepancies like that with the low frequencies. Not unless there wasn't a proper seal in the ear canal or coupler, and that would be such a noobish mistake to make, I think there's zero chance Jude would have done that. All our coupler brands and variants tend to agree closely in the bass frequencies, so like I said, I'm curious...

I wrote some impressions and comparisons earlier in this thread. The Luna has excellent bass. However, as correct ear tips are important for all IEM's, with the Luna that statement is critical. Even tips I used in the past did not work well with the Luna. The best I found (and others on this thread) were the AZLA SednaEarfitLightShort (available on amazon). With these (and others that might fit you perfectly) the bass is present, strong and detailed. As soon as the fit is not perfect you will lose the bass. I believe this is what causes so many listeners to have different opinions of the bass and the Luna overall. That being said, they are also one of the most comfortable universals (with the AZLA earths) I have ever used. For example, putting the same tips on my Fourte, the Luna is still noticeably more comfortable. The other thing you will notice is a smooth and open treble. Bad recordings not listenable on otherTOTL IEMSs for example, work with the Luna. That is why I feel that even if you already have a favorite IEM as compared to everything else available, you might still want the Luna in your bag. Let me explain. I recently decided to get the soundtrack for "The Greatest Showman" because I really like the track "Never Enough" as sung by Lauren Allred. Although listenable on my VE-8, the recording is so bad, TOTL IEM's can make me wince when she winds up and force me to turn the volume down a bit. Now, the VE-8, Elysium, etc. are not incorrect in this reproduction as my Rockport Altairs (my home stereo, and driven by tubes by the way) convey this same message, though they still do a better job than the IEMs. However, the Luna, will produce everything in the track, let you hear all the inflections in Lauren Allred's voice, and still keep it sounding great throughout. It has a way of smoothing out female vocals, but does not sound dark, it remains open. This might be its most magical ability. Tks.

 

[csglinux]

The Luna has excellent bass.

It may have excellent bass. All I'm saying is that every measurement to date shows the sub-bass amplitude to be less than that of the mid-bass. No eartip is going to change that. If that's your preference, that's fine; it's usually not mine, but like I said, I'll reserve judgement...

This might be its most magical ability.

It could be magic. Or it could simply be that its FR has a dip around 6-7 kHz, which would take the edge off any sibilance present in a recording

 

[Frankie D]

It may have excellent bass. All I'm saying is that every measurement to date shows the sub-bass amplitude to be less than that of the mid-bass. No eartip is going to change that. If that's your preference, that's fine; it's usually not mine, but like I said, I'll reserve judgement...


It could be magic. Or it could simply be that its FR has a dip around 6-7 kHz, which would take the edge off any sibilance present in a recording

One day, perhaps like me, you will realize measurements do not tell the story. Measurements do not depict dynamic range, one of the most important aspects in high fidelity. You also only have the freq response at one volume level...what about other volume levels. Also, were they able to be driven properly? For example, the Luna likes power. It comes into its own louder than others. Was there an impedance mismatch? On large stereos there are audiophiles that only want tubes. They do not measure as well as SS, but they can sound better. Another example is Vinyl. Cd’s will measure better, but Vinyl sounds better, and it is not hard to hear. That is why there is a resurgence and top players allow you to hear the difference easily. Measurements will not show this. The issue is freq response is typically a useless measurement. In addition, and I am not sure if true for IEM’s as well, freq response measurements below 100hz are typically not reliable. Bottom line, listen. If you cannot, see if others who own an IEM you have, discuss it with the same attributes you would apply to it. You may have found someone with similar hearing preferences. Give them more credence. For example, while I like open and airy, I am more for realistic and beautiful vocals with a good bass foundation with my systems. Someone else might love ear splitting treble and little bass. Take that into consideration in a review. Also what their comparisons are when someone declares XYZ is the best! Well, what else have they listened to and on what systems. Anyway, long answer, but I am someone who owns some of the best there is, and the Luna has bass. Is it your cup of tea, only you can answer it and 20 minutes if listening will probably not provide the answer, only a clue. Viva la difference!

 

[csglinux]

One day, perhaps like me, you will realize measurements do not tell the story.

I will aspire to one day become as enlightened and as modest as you are.

Measurements do not depict dynamic range, one of the most important aspects in high fidelity.

If dynamic range is what floats your boat, you could absolutely measure the Luna's loudest and quietest SPLs and take a ratio. For argument's sake, let's assume the Luna is capable of being driven from the threshold of human hearing to over 200 dB with no increase in THD. That still wouldn't change the fact that its sub-bass rolls off. Do you see the subtle difference here? One of these issues I was talking about; the other I wasn't.

You also only have the freq response at one volume level...what about other volume levels.

FR won't change with SPL. If you're really going to insist on nonsense like this, name your wager...

Also, were they able to be driven properly?

You think Jude's measuring equipment would be incapable of driving a Luna? Even if it was, how would that change the FR?

Was there an impedance mismatch?

So not only was Jude's amp too weak, but it also had a high z-out and this dynamic driver's impedance curve isn't flat? Ok, let's see your measurements showing the latter.

Another example is Vinyl. Cd’s will measure better, but Vinyl sounds better, and it is not hard to hear. That is why there is a resurgence and top players allow you to hear the difference easily. Measurements will not show this.

Measurements will absolutely show these differences - most of which are distortion artifacts. But again, do you see the subtle difference between CD vs vinyl and sub-bas<mid-bass? Do you see how these two issues aren't exactly the same thing?

The issue is freq response is typically a useless measurement.

Even if FR weren't overwhelmingly THE most important thing you can ever measure in a headphone, it was, at the very least, the subject of my comment about the sub-bass amplitude being apparently less than that of the mid-bass.

In addition, and I am not sure if true for IEM’s as well, freq response measurements below 100hz are typically not reliable.

This is completely wrong. The bass frequencies are the easiest to capture repeatably, as they're entirely unaffected by coupler type, insertion depth, variations in transfer impedance, etc. - these issues only affect the upper frequencies.

I understand that you really like the Luna. Can you understand that by me pointing out that the sub-bass rolls off slightly, I'm not trying to insult your ancestors?
I am simply pointing out, that from all existing measurements, it appears that the sub-bass rolls off slightly. If you're really trying to insist this isn't the case, I think you're going to be digging yourself into a hole. If you're telling me that the Luna is the best headphone in the world despite the slight sub-bass roll-off, that is a different story.

 

[buonassi]

Some people genuinely prefer to have a sub-bass that rolls off a bit, and there's nothing wrong with that, if that's what you like.

I am one such person FWIW. My brain tires with too much subbass and one of my ears goes into protection mode (acoustic reflex) while the other ear doesn't, even at low volumes. So.... a natural rolloff is preferred for me if I want to keep a center balanced image.

 

[hkpants]

I'm the opposite, I prefer sub-bass that is elevated and mid-bass that is recessed as compensation.

 

[Frankie D]

I will aspire to one day become as enlightened and as modest as you are.

If dynamic range is what floats your boat, you could absolutely measure the Luna's loudest and quietest SPLs and take a ratio. For argument's sake, let's assume the Luna is capable of being driven from the threshold of human hearing to over 200 dB with no increase in THD. That still wouldn't change the fact that its sub-bass rolls off. Do you see the subtle difference here? One of these issues I was talking about; the other I wasn't.

FR won't change with SPL. If you're really going to insist on nonsense like this, name your wager...

You think Jude's measuring equipment would be incapable of driving a Luna? Even if it was, how would that change the FR?

So not only was Jude's amp too weak, but it also had a high z-out and this dynamic driver's impedance curve isn't flat? Ok, let's see your measurements showing the latter.

Measurements will absolutely show these differences - most of which are distortion artifacts. But again, do you see the subtle difference between CD vs vinyl and sub-bas<mid-bass? Do you see how these two issues aren't exactly the same thing?

Even if FR weren't overwhelmingly THE most important thing you can ever measure in a headphone, it was, at the very least, the subject of my comment about the sub-bass amplitude being apparently less than that of the mid-bass.

This is completely wrong. The bass frequencies are the easiest to capture repeatably, as they're entirely unaffected by coupler type, insertion depth, variations in transfer impedance, etc. - these issues only affect the upper frequencies.

I understand that you really like the Luna. Can you understand that by me pointing out that the sub-bass rolls off slightly, I'm not trying to insult your ancestors?
I am simply pointing out, that from all existing measurements, it appears that the sub-bass rolls off slightly. If you're really trying to insist this isn't the case, I think you're going to be digging yourself into a hole. If you're telling me that the Luna is the best headphone in the world despite the slight sub-bass roll-off, that is a different story.

I guess you will not become enlightened! Ha!
Seriously, the Luna is not my favorite IEM of all time, but I do feel excellent work should be applauded. As for the rest of your comments, I disagree. May the force be with you!

 

[csglinux]

Seriously, the Luna is not my favorite IEM of all time, but I do feel excellent work should be applauded.

Nowhere did I say the Luna shouldn't be applauded. If you re-read my posts very carefully, you might notice I simply pointed out that the Luna's sub-bass rolls off. That's all.

As for the rest of your comments, I disagree.

Of course you do. This is headfi, where blind faith and ignorance are entirely equivalent, if not superior, to facts and an education.
I'm afraid your Star Wars reference was lost on me. It wasn't even 5/4? If we're going to make wildly irrelevant and off-topic comments, then:

 

[twister6]

I'd be very surprised if what you're saying weren't true. The low-frequency measurements are usually the more reliable part of the spectrum. Some people genuinely prefer to have a sub-bass that rolls off a bit, and there's nothing wrong with that, if that's what you like. I usually prefer sub-bass > mid-bass, but I should hold back judgement since I've not yet heard the LUNA.

Yes, I would encourage not to rely entirely on what you are seeing in FR measurements, but rather wait until you get a chance to hear it yourself When you look at the measurements, you can jump to a wrong conclusion that Luna is some mid-forward tuned IEM with rolled off bass, which it is not. I took the measurements before I heard it, and was a bit surprised myself There is plenty of bass, and echoing @subguy812 comments - YOU NEED TO TIP ROLL because it does affect Luna sound and it is quite noticeable. And, perhaps, that explains discrepancies in people's impressions.

And speaking of reviews and measurements, @antdroid, out of curiosity, did you have a chance to run a sine sweep when you had your Luna tour unit? Only saying it cause while I do agree with your measurements up to 5kHz peak, after that based on what I have measured and confirmed in multiple sine sweeps, Luna does not have 8kHz peak, it peaks closer to 7k and then drops off sharply before 8k and then peaks again around 10kHz where you have a dip. If you get a chance, please double check it, bud.

 

[hkpants]

Yes, I would encourage not to rely entirely on what you are seeing in FR measurements, but rather wait until you get a chance to hear it yourself When you look at the measurements, you can jump to a wrong conclusion that Luna is some mid-forward tuned IEM with rolled off bass, which it is not. I took the measurements before I heard it, and was a bit surprised myself There is plenty of bass, and echoing @subguy812 comments - YOU NEED TO TIP ROLL because it does affect Luna sound and it is quite noticeable. And, perhaps, that explains discrepancies in people's impressions.

And speaking of reviews and measurements, @antdroid, out of curiosity, did you have a chance to run a sine sweep when you had your Luna tour unit? Only saying it cause while I do agree with your measurements up to 5kHz peak, after that based on what I have measured and confirmed in multiple sine sweeps, Luna does not have 8kHz peak, it peaks closer to 7k and then drops off sharply before 8k and then peaks again around 10kHz where you have a dip. If you get a chance, please double check it, bud.

He has a FR chart here: https://www.audiodiscourse.com/2020/05/dunu-luna-review.html

 

[twister6]

He has a FR chart here: https://www.audiodiscourse.com/2020/05/dunu-luna-review.html

Yes, and that is a chart I was referring to (he also mirrored it on Head-fi in Luna review section). I don't believe the measurement is correct after 5kHz, and that's why I encourage other fellow reviewers with diy measurement setups to double check it by running sine sweeps before publishing it, and also the reason why I don't publish my measurements lol!!! While I often find my peaks/valley to align with what I hear when running a sine sweep, the amplitude of peaks in my measurements can't be correct since I don't have an accurate way to calibrate it.