[Shaffer]

@Thommohawk


Not to burst your bubble, but an amp only amplifies the signal, it cannot do anything else. It cannot make the sound "romantic", more "airy" or "room to breath". We're getting into witchcraft and wizardry right now .

I'd say more of a lack of experience. I'm sorry, you're completely wrong. Then, again, as you almost solely play MP3s, it all just might sound the same.

 

[pokk700]

Actually, amplifiers have function greater than amplifying the signal... Without sufficient current, the drivers won't only not get loud enough, but they won't be able to produce their full dynamic range and have the speed they would with the extra power.

 

[pokk700]

I'd say more of a lack of experience. I'm sorry, you're completely wrong. Then, again, as you almost solely play MP3s, it all just might sound the same.

That is true, but having a good synergy between the headphones and amp is going to typically have a much greater impact than going from MP3 to lossless, which is a small improvement.

 

[CannonCollector]

How are these compared to the dt770 pro in terms of bass and immersion?

 

[Shaffer]

That is true, but having a good synergy between the headphones and amp is going to typically have a much greater impact than going from MP3 to lossless, which is a small improvement.

Not to my ears. MP3s sound like stainless steel.

 

[pokk700]

Not to my ears. MP3s sound like stainless steel.

Going from a low-mid quality MP3 to 1411 Kbps file is a very nice improvement, but from 320 MP3 to 1411 AIFF I have to listen carefully for the differences. Some people can't hear the difference at all though which is interesting

 

[retskrad]

In my experience, bright headphones with audiophile recordings are the best, but 90% of the music out there is crappy so the sibilance and treble gets too much. I think thats why sennheiser, hifiman, akg etc are going with headphones with a bright tilt like lcd-3, he-6, hd800 etc. They are all bright.
 
This might be controversial, but I find the dt990 to be higher in fidelity compared to the hd650 with audiophile recordings. But if the recording is badly recorded, you'll have a bad time with the 990.

 

[Thommohawk]

  @Thommohawk
 
Not to burst your bubble, but an amp only amplifies the signal, it cannot do anything else. It cannot make the sound "romantic", more "airy" or "room to breath". We're getting into witchcraft and wizardry right now .

 
I disagree, I mean obviously an amplifier amplifies the signal but if that's all it does then how do you explain some amps being warmer than others? Also certain headphones (like the DT 990 Pro) are rated at 250ohms so they are literally made to be amplified. It doesn't just sound louder when amped, it sounds like that is how it's meant to be played and listened to. 

 

[retskrad]

Headphone impedance is usually increased by thinner wire and most importantly more turns of wire in the voice coil. More turns or loops creates a larger field (area of magnetic influence). In layman's terms more magnetic force for the coil to move the diaphragm.  Thinner wire usually works out to a lighter, more responsive diaphragm. Depending on the headphone design, this may lead to more accurate response.
 
How they effect sound is dependent on the magnetic field generated and diaphragm construction (physical response of diaphragm).
 
A higher ohm like 250 and 600 ohm means less noise, not better audible sound quality. Maybe a few +-dB here and there which you cant probably hear.
 
You can try out two different headphones, and you will most of the time create the differences in your head. If you want it to be different or better, your brain makes you believe it is. There has been studies on this, google it.

 

[pokk700]

In my experience, bright headphones with audiophile recordings are the best, but 90% of the music out there is crappy so the sibilance and treble gets too much. I think thats why sennheiser, hifiman, akg etc are going with headphones with a bright tilt like lcd-3, he-6, hd800 etc. They are all bright.

This might be controversial, but I find the dt990 to be higher in fidelity compared to the hd650 with audiophile recordings. But if the recording is badly recorded, you'll have a bad time with the 990.

Yeah, that sounds pretty accurate. The 990's can sound siblent and annoying with badly recorded music, low bit rate, or both. I definitely agree though that regardless if it's actually true, brighter headphones tend to sound more detailed and "clear".

 

[Thommohawk]

  Headphone impedance is usually increased by thinner wire and most importantly more turns of wire in the voice coil. More turns or loops creates a larger field (area of magnetic influence). In layman's terms more magnetic force for the coil to move the diaphragm.  Thinner wire usually works out to a lighter, more responsive diaphragm. Depending on the headphone design, this may lead to more accurate response.
 
How they effect sound is dependent on the magnetic field generated and diaphragm construction (physical response of diaphragm).
 
A higher ohm like 250 and 600 ohm means less noise, not better audible sound quality. Maybe a few +-dB here and there which you cant probably hear.
 
You can try out two different headphones, and you will most of the time create the differences in your head. If you want it to be different or better, your brain makes you believe it is. There has been studies on this, google it.

 
 
Here's the thing though, different headphones DO sound vastly different. Comparing my DT 990 Pro to, say, my Koss Porta Pro or better yet my old Sennheiser HD 215 (if I'm not mistaking the model number) the difference really is obvious on first listen and is a night and day experience. Better on the other hand or worse is a matter of opinion. 

Like I could say one wishes to justify their own decision making when it comes to purchases and so therefore plays down the differences between amped vs unamped, or different headphones entirely, or burn in itself. I've seen people on here who outright don't believe in burn in whereas for me personally burn in is an absolute fact. And I tested it on my well used Koss Porta Pro headphones with my brothers barely used Koss Porta Pro headphones on the same material and mine sounded that much more refined, not much difference in all honesty, but it was definitely there. 

Regarding amped vs unamped, it's like putting an average engine in to a Porsche it's just not the same thing any more. But give it the the proper engine and then it's a Porsche. Same with headphones that are meant to be used with an amp. 

 

[retskrad]

Quote:

   
 
Here's the thing though, different headphones DO sound vastly different. Comparing my DT 990 Pro to, say, my Koss Porta Pro or better yet my old Sennheiser HD 215 (if I'm not mistaking the model number) the difference really is obvious on first listen and is a night and day experience. Better on the other hand or worse is a matter of opinion. 

Like I could say one wishes to justify their own decision making when it comes to purchases and so therefore plays down the differences between amped vs unamped, or different headphones entirely, or burn in itself. I've seen people on here who outright don't believe in burn in whereas for me personally burn in is an absolute fact. And I tested it on my well used Koss Porta Pro headphones with my brothers barely used Koss Porta Pro headphones on the same material and mine sounded that much more refined, not much difference in all honesty, but it was definitely there. 

Regarding amped vs unamped, it's like putting an average engine in to a Porsche it's just not the same thing any more. But give it the the proper engine and then it's a Porsche. Same with headphones that are meant to be used with an amp. 

 
There you go. You expected before listening to your brothers porta pro that it will sound different.  A blind A/B testing would be way more accurate where you dont know which one youre listenning to .
 
Also, of course price class matters, but the higher up you go the diminishing returns drops like a nuke. For example, apple earbuds to koss portapro is a leap, porta pro to m50 is a leap, m50 to dt880/990 is starting to push it, but dt880/990 to HD600/650 or k701 is not a leap, they are technically on the same level, just different sound signature. From example  the hd650 to lcd-2 or h800 or whatever other flagship you name, its way out there and I will not buy any of them. The price increase does not warrant a 10-15% increase in fidelity.
 
For me, I'll go MAX $500 for headphones and $200 for dac+amp. I only buy the amp+dac only to sleep better at night to be honest, nothing major. I know damn well there are better out there, but ignorance is bliss, right? 

 

[Thommohawk]

   
There you go. You expected before listening to your brothers porta pro that it will sound different.  A blind A/B testing would be way more accurate where you dont know which one youre listenning to .
 
Also, of course price class matters, but the higher up you go the diminishing returns drops like a nuke. For example, apple earbuds to koss portapro is a leap, porta pro to m50 is a leap, m50 to dt880/990 is starting to push it, but dt880/990 to HD600/650 or k701 is not a leap, they are technically on the same level, just different sound signature. From example  the hd650 to lcd-2 or h800 or whatever other flagship you name, its way out there and I will not buy any of them. The price increase does not warrant a 10-15% increase in fidelity.
 
For me, I'll go MAX $500 for headphones and $200 for dac+amp. I only buy the amp+dac only to sleep better at night to be honest, nothing major. I know damn well there are better out there, but ignorance is bliss, right? 

 
Ignorance is bliss, correct. But there's something to be said for a decent DAC and amp having said that. As I mentioned my DT 990 Pro sounds worlds different on a laptop with poor onboard DAC than it does from my iPad but especially my home DAC which wasn't even expensive. 

Also agreed about diminishing returns, I have a DT 990 Pro but I listened to the Denon D2000 on display and audio wise there's barely anything between them yet the price was double. But to be fair the comfort and materials were much better. 

 

[Phishin Phool]

   
Ignorance is bliss, correct. But there's something to be said for a decent DAC and amp having said that. As I mentioned my DT 990 Pro sounds worlds different on a laptop with poor onboard DAC than it does from my iPad but especially my home DAC which wasn't even expensive. 

Also agreed about diminishing returns, I have a DT 990 Pro but I listened to the Denon D2000 on display and audio wise there's barely anything between them yet the price was double. But to be fair the comfort and materials were much better. 

 
 
^^^this^^^
I have owned a number of headphones. Had some stolen, had some break , have given some away and have sold or traded others. What I still have are a DT990 and Denon D2000 and you are right they are very similar and both great headphones. FWIW the other great headphone I still have is the Pioneer Se-A1000 great headphone and extreme bargain.

 

[CannonCollector]

I'm planning on getting these but first I would like some assistance on which amp is the best for these headphones... I'm leaning toward the O2 or the vali amp but I heard tube amps do miracles with these bringing out the best of them. My budget is >100$ and I'd like an amp that i can just plug in and start immedeatly (I've heard you have to do some stuff with tube amps in order for them to work better, I might be wrong though)
 
Thanks in advance
 
 
PS: forgot to mention I've already got an amp, the fiio e17 but I think it's not enough to feed the pro 250 ohm version