[Crunchlab]

Hey guys, I'm new to the whole world of headphones, and recording, so please bare with me.

I've narrowed down my search for headphones to DT770's as recommended by a friend who is studying audio engineering. I'm slightly leaning towards the DT770m's due to the noise isolation, but I've also heard things about them not being very comfortable. I'm unable to try out the DT770's/DT770m locally, so how is the comfort?
 
I will be using these almost exclusively to monitor my guitar though a Eleven Rack, hence, would that mean I'll need a pair of headphones with a flat response?
 
Having said I'm new to the world of headphones, and audio engineering, I've read some posts and what not about the DT770's being a tad bassy, while the DT770m's are less bassy. (http://asia-pacific-india.beyerdynamic.com/service/faqs/headphones.html)
Which do you would be better all round for monitoring? (I'll be monitoring electric guitar primarily, but occasionally I'll monitor bass)
 
Besides monitoring my guitar through these headphones, I eventually plan to learn how to do some basic mixing as well, which brings me into my next question. Will I be better off with the higher impedance DT770 Pros, If I opt for them? Would the DT770 Pros dominate over the DT770's in mixing? And lastly, as I'm not using a power amp to power these headphones, will I achieve a decent enough volume to hear my guitar through the 250 ohm DT770s?
 
Thanks!
Once again, excuse my nooby-ness, as I'm 100% new to this.
 
TD;DL
1 - I'm new to headphones/audio engineering.
 
2- How is the comfort of the DT770's and DT770m's?
 
3 - Would I need a pair of flat response headphones for monitoring electric guitar?
 
4 - For monitoring electric guitar, and electric bass, would I be better off with the DT770's or DT770m's

5 - Mixing wise, would I be better off with the DT770's or DT770m's?
 
6 - Should I opt for the higher impedance ones?
 
7 - If I do opt for the higher impedance ones, as I'm not running them through a power amp, will I be able to still achieve a decent volume to hear my guitar through them? (250 ohm)
 
Thanks.!
 
 
 
PS.
Thankyou once again in advance, I feel like I've written a huge wall of text for people to read. I will appreciate all responses given!
Thanks!
 
~Eddy
 

 

[JGOelfke]

I may be able to help out with a couple of your questions, but not all...I've own the DT770's for about a year now and I love them.
 
As far as comfort goes, they do sit fairly snug on your head, just something to keep in mind. The cushioning on the headband has never been a problem for me and the velour pads are super comfortable. I've read a couple reviews of people saying the velour makes their ears sweat, but I have yet to experience this and I've listened for up to five or six hours at a time. The only thing I will note about the comfort is that because the ear cups are fairly large, they can put some pressure on the joint between your jawbone & skull, which can become slightly discomforting if you have TMJ problems (like me  
 
Also, as far as impedance goes, a higher impedance would most likely be better for your situation, so long as they can be driven properly. The benefit of higher impedance is that it masks voltage spikes that naturally occur in music. At a low impedance, these voltage spikes can be audible because there is a much lower "voltage drop" across a low impedance, whereas there is a higher voltage drop across the high impedance headphones, basically helping to make the frequency response flatter. Does that make any sense?
 
I don't have much experience to answer any of the other questions about monitoring and/or recording, so I'll leave that up to someone with a little more expertise (although I would expect a guitar amp could drive 250 ohm cans, but that's just speculation)! Hope that helped a little bit!

 

[Crunchlab]

 
Quote:

I may be able to help out with a couple of your questions, but not all...I've own the DT770's for about a year now and I love them.
 
As far as comfort goes, they do sit fairly snug on your head, just something to keep in mind. The cushioning on the headband has never been a problem for me and the velour pads are super comfortable. I've read a couple reviews of people saying the velour makes their ears sweat, but I have yet to experience this and I've listened for up to five or six hours at a time. The only thing I will note about the comfort is that because the ear cups are fairly large, they can put some pressure on the joint between your jawbone & skull, which can become slightly discomforting if you have TMJ problems (like me  
 
Also, as far as impedance goes, a higher impedance would most likely be better for your situation, so long as they can be driven properly. The benefit of higher impedance is that it masks voltage spikes that naturally occur in music. At a low impedance, these voltage spikes can be audible because there is a much lower "voltage drop" across a low impedance, whereas there is a higher voltage drop across the high impedance headphones, basically helping to make the frequency response flatter. Does that make any sense?
 
I don't have much experience to answer any of the other questions about monitoring and/or recording, so I'll leave that up to someone with a little more expertise (although I would expect a guitar amp could drive 250 ohm cans, but that's just speculation)! Hope that helped a little bit!

Thanks for that mate! Much appreciate it!
 
Is the velour like a type of swuede (can't spell)?
Is the build quality good?
How is the sound isolation from them compared to other cans you may have used?
 
It does in some respects makes sense. Is there a way I can if a amp could drive 250 ohm cans?
 
I feel somewhat rude/bad for such a short reply, but much appreciated mate, thanks for the time you put aside to write this!
I will be meeting up a bit with my friend studying audio eng today, and I'll see what I can suck out've his knowledge. 
 
Thanks!
 

 

[stv014]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crunchlab /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
2- How is the comfort of the DT770's and DT770m's?

 
The DT770 Pro is more comfortable. It is lighter (270g vs. 300g), clamps less (3.5N vs. 6.5N - the latter is more than even that of the HD280 Pro), and has velour pads vs. pleather on the 770M which can get hot and sweaty. But it isolates much less (its isolation is still good, though). Basically, you want the 770M if you really need isolation, otherwise the normal version is better in terms of sound quality and comfort, and you can probably also get it slightly cheaper.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Crunchlab /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
6 - Should I opt for the higher impedance ones?

 
The higher impedance versions generally offer a minor improvement in sound quality, but need more voltage to achieve the same loudness.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Crunchlab /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
7 - If I do opt for the higher impedance ones, as I'm not running them through a power amp, will I be able to still achieve a decent volume to hear my guitar through them? (250 ohm)

 
It is not easy to answer without knowing the output voltage of your sources, and what maximum SPL level you need. Preferably you would want something that can produce at least 1 to 2 Volts RMS without significant distortion, and has an output impedance of at most a few tens of Ohms. For the 80 Ohm versions, about half the voltage is enough, but lower (<= 10 Ohm) output impedance is preferred.
 

 

[stv014]

Quote:

 
Is the velour like a type of swuede (can't spell)?

 
Velour is a velvet-like material, here is what it looks like: http://doctorhead.ru/images/catalogue/items/79_20070530-200637_vbig_1180541198.jpg
 
Quote:

 
Is the build quality good?

 
Yes. These are built fairly well, and do not break easily.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Crunchlab /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
How is the sound isolation from them compared to other cans you may have used?

 
The DT770 Pro has fairly good, but not outstanding isolation that is comparable to other closed headphones intended for studio use. The M version is very isolating according to the specifications, but I never tried it nor seen any graphs or measurements.
 
Quote:

It does in some respects makes sense. Is there a way I can if a amp could drive 250 ohm cans?

 
If you do get an amp, you should have no problem with 250 Ohms.
 

 

[JGOelfke]

Quote:

Thanks for that mate! Much appreciate it!
 
Is the velour like a type of swuede (can't spell)?
Is the build quality good?
How is the sound isolation from them compared to other cans you may have used?
 
It does in some respects makes sense. Is there a way I can if a amp could drive 250 ohm cans?
 
I feel somewhat rude/bad for such a short reply, but much appreciated mate, thanks for the time you put aside to write this!
I will be meeting up a bit with my friend studying audio eng today, and I'll see what I can suck out've his knowledge. 
 
Thanks!
 

Hey no worries on the short reply, this place is all about giving help and discussing! 
 
The velour is a smooth, cloth-like material. It's totally different than any sort of leather pad...kinda velvet-y. As far as build quality, it's definitely sturdy. The ear-cups are attached to the headband by a piece of pretty sturdy metal that's about 1/16" thick and the metal is notched at various lengths for sizing. I haven't had any issues with the sizing accidentally changing on mine whatsoever. That piece of metal appears to continue through the headband, which has plenty of padding on it as I said earlier. The actual ear cups themselves are made from hard plastic and after a year of use, mine aren't scratched or dinged up at all. The only potential design/sturdiness flaw I see is that the wire connection between the headband and earcup is exposed and hangs loose, although it is on the inside of the headband and really the only way this could get pulled and come loose is if the headphones were being thrown around. Basically, as long as you take care of them, you shouldn't have much to worry about.
 
As far as isolation goes, they do fairly well. They definitely block outside noise from interfering with listening (which for me is huge as I use my 770s for portable use). They do leak some noise when I turn up my amp, but I can use them when studying in the library at a comfortable listening volume without having to worry about disturbing those around me. Because they have the velour pads, they are a little more subject to leaking sound than if, say, you were to buy leather pads and swap them. Leather tends to isolate better just because it is a more dense material. But anyway, they are a closed headphone, so they isolate better than some others I've listened to. From other closed headphones I've listened to (HD448, HD380, HD25-ii, D2000, SRH 440/840/940, KNS 8400, etc...), in my opinion, they rank more towards the top. The KNS 8400 isolates better, but I think the 770s did better than most of the Sennheiser models I've listened to, along with the Shure SRH940.
 
For driving ability...with just the guitar amp you shouldn't have any difficulty driving the headphones. I have a pair of 300 ohm cans that I use when I play and they are driven superbly with my Vox  amp. One other thought about which impedance rating to go with...very related to the "voltage spikes" argument, but because playing guitar can be pretty sensitive to feedback and/or amplifying the scratching noise from the strings reverberating, a higher impedance headphone should help minimize those effects from being audible because of the added power the cans need to be driven.
 
One other thing I would consider for using the 770s for monitoring...while I don't have much experience, I can tell you that the headphones aren't exactly "flat." They do have a U-shape response curve (heavy on the bass and sometimes bright highs with some lacking in the mids). But honestly, I listen to a lot of different types of music and even the "mid-rich" songs sound pretty good to my ears. I'm sure some people would disagree with me on that. If that's the sound SQ you prefer as I do 

 they'll be great. Just something to consider...
 

 

[nc8000]

The M version is designed as a monitor headphone for drummers and supposedly have a 30dB noise reduction as opposed to about 18dB for the normal PRO

 

[PurpleAngel]

Beyerdynamic headphones.
Pro have a tighter fit over the ears (little more bass) then the Premiums
Premium are a little more comfortable then the Pros
Premiums are more expensive then the Pros.
The DT-770 Pro 80-Ohms are the bassy ones, the DT-770 Pro 250-Ohm more balanced, little more clarity then the 80-Ohm.
The 80-Ohm can run off just about any source, 250-Ohm need a headphone amplifier.
I would guess that music equipment that costs $900 should be able to drive 250-Ohm headphones.
$25 headphone amplifiers can drive 250-Ohm headphones and the Eleven costs $900.

 

[Mercuttio]

Unless you are an actual drummer, you don't want the M. The mids are super sucked out on it, and it's grainier. It's truly a "special purpose" headphone.

 

[Crunchlab]

Hey guys, I've read all your responses. Thanks a bunch again!
 
If I were to buy a headphone amp, would that effect the sound produced by the 11 in any way? 
Would I have to buy a decent one to get the DT770's to work well? 
As the main issue I have now, is that if the 11 would be able to power the 250ohm version ones, as I've read about the 11 providing an un amplified signal.
 
@JGOelfke
Would you be able to tell me the Vox amp you're running your headphones through? Can you achieve a decent volume through them?
 
Thanks for the help once again. :cheers:

Also, quick question - If I were to mix, would I need to buy a new sound card etc for my computer? I've got plans to currently buy a Macbook Pro - would that mean I'd need to buy a new interface or something to mix?

@PurpleAngel
As you said  the 250ohm ones are more balanced, is the difference in frequencies a noticible thing when you listen to the 80's and 250's side by side?
I don't think I'm going to be recording an album or anything sometime soon, so would I be better with the 250s then?

 

[Mercuttio]

Don't get the 250 ohm version. It's grainier and has a super sucked out midrange in comparison to the 80 ohm version. It's also really tricky to drive correctly. 

 

[Crunchlab]

Quote:

Don't get the 250 ohm version. It's grainier and has a super sucked out midrange in comparison to the 80 ohm version. It's also really tricky to drive correctly. 

If that is the case, I may make the plunge and buy the 80ohms (I've found a fairly decent priced one online).
 
Are there any other headphones in the sub $200 AU/US range I should know about?
This is my first proper headphone purchase, so I don't want to have buyers remorse or something.

 

[PurpleAngel]

Quote:

Hey guys, I've read all your responses. Thanks a bunch again!
If I were to buy a headphone amp, would that effect the sound produced by the 11 in any way? 
Would I have to buy a decent one to get the DT770's to work well? 
As the main issue I have now, is that if the 11 would be able to power the 250ohm version ones, as I've read about the 11 providing an un amplified signal.
@JGOelfke
Would you be able to tell me the Vox amp you're running your headphones through? Can you achieve a decent volume through them?
Thanks for the help once again. :cheers:
Also, quick question - If I were to mix, would I need to buy a new sound card etc for my computer? I've got plans to currently buy a Macbook Pro - would that mean I'd need to buy a new interface or something to mix?
@PurpleAngel
As you said  the 250ohm ones are more balanced, is the difference in frequencies a noticible thing when you listen to the 80's and 250's side by side?
I don't think I'm going to be recording an album or anything sometime soon, so would I be better with the 250s then?

The Eleven Rack comes with a coaxial digital output (RCA jack), so you would want the external headphone amplifier with the coaxial digital input (RCA).
How the external headphone amplifier would affect the sound, not sure how to answer that, I'm guessing you would want a headphone amplifier as neutral as possible.
 
My $500 Onkyo 706B stereo receiver does not come listing any headphone amplifier, but powers my 250-Ohm headphones just fine.
You just have to plug in the headphones and see what happens.
 
I think I have a "tin ear", So I'm not sure about all details of sound.
I just listened to Porn Star Dancing, swapping the 80s and 250s, very close sound, just more bass with the 80s.
If you like bass, the 80-Ohm might serve you better.
My sound card is the Asus Xonar Essence STX, with three LME49860NA op-amps.
 
The MacBook Pro is not going have anything special in the audio hardware.
So if you do get an external headphone amplifier, make sure it can plug into the Mac (2.0 analog) and the Eleven rack.
 
 
 

 

[stv014]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crunchlab /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Are there any other headphones in the sub $200 AU/US range I should know about?

 
You may also consider the KRK KNS 8400. It is similarly priced, has good isolation and comfort (pleather pads with memory foam), a well extended and for the price reasonably balanced/flat frequency response, and those who have it say that it has very good clarity and detail resolution. It is probably not a bad choice for your purposes.
 

 

[stv014]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crunchlab /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Also, quick question - If I were to mix, would I need to buy a new sound card etc for my computer? I've got plans to currently buy a Macbook Pro - would that mean I'd need to buy a new interface or something to mix?

 
If your Macbook Pro only has integrated onboard audio, and you intend to record/mix with the computer, then you probably want a real sound card. Within around a $100 price, you can already find pretty good ones (at least for PCs), and some of them would also be well suited for driving headphones directly.