[oldshoe99]

Quote:
Now I have to try the new DT48E just to find out...
 
 

I would hate to suggest anyone spend a bunch of money to prove a point, but the really big mystery among DT-48 users, especially those who are more acquainted with older versions, is whether the current DT-48A and DT-48E have the same drivers, and same internal driver housing characteristics. In other words, if you pulled the current designed oval cushions off of a DT-48E and put them onto a new DT-48A, and compensated for any impedance differences, would the 'A' then sound just like or very close to the 'E' version? For DT-48 fans it's not just academic, since if they sounded much the same using the same cushions, it would argue for there being only one DT-48, and fundamentally an audiometric design. If the 'A' did not sound like the 'E' with new-design oval cushions on, then that would argue that the DT-48E was designed for music listening or music monitoring, not audiometry.

 

[kiteki]

 
Quote:

[/] The measurements that were done at Innerfidelity did nothing to explain that peculiar sound.

Precisely.
 
 

 

[oldshoe99]

I just remembered something about the original design, if that 1937 reference is correct. They were designed as a "dynamic telephone" (hence the 'DT'), for monitoring communications and sounds in the run-up to WW2. There was a gap of memory after the war when most or all of the original documents were lost. So presumably the audiometry aspect started in the 1950's. Or maybe (and this is just some wild speculation on my part) when some of the engineers/scientists/spies came on board the U.S. team, they described any DT-48's in their possession as "audiometry" devices to discourage the allies from seizing them.

 

[RexAeterna]

If you have heard a lot of dynamic headphones, you may not have heard anything quite like a DT-48E. I would suggest, at least for someone's serious study if they have the time and inclination, that the DT-48E is a separate category from other dynamics, as are orthos, electrostatics, and so on. I don't know if it's because the driver design is so old, or because it's unique somehow. But it's quite different in its fundamental character, and that's one thing that hasn't changed since 1974. It reminds me of a metallic sound, like a classic horn driver in a speaker system. The measurements that were done at Innerfidelity did nothing to explain that peculiar sound.

not all vintage horns are metallic sounding. so what type of horns are you specifically talking about? lot of horns were actually praised of their wide on axis dispersion and high frequency extension.

 

[oldshoe99]

If you have heard a lot of dynamic headphones, you may not have heard anything quite like a DT-48E. I would suggest, at least for someone's serious study if they have the time and inclination, that the DT-48E is a separate category from other dynamics, as are orthos, electrostatics, and so on. I don't know if it's because the driver design is so old, or because it's unique somehow. But it's quite different in its fundamental character, and that's one thing that hasn't changed since 1974. It reminds me of a metallic sound, like a classic horn driver in a speaker system. The measurements that were done at Innerfidelity did nothing to explain that peculiar sound.

not all vintage horns are metallic sounding. so what type of horns are you specifically talking about? lot of horns were actually praised of their wide on axis dispersion and high frequency extension.

You're right of course. I do remember my first listen to a Klipschorn set up in a large room, and my immediate impression was of a very neutral signature, reminding me of the overall balance of the Large Advent and the Bose 901 (901 can be tricky according to how and where placed). This was a long time ago but the Klipsch was a very mature product then. And I didn't have an impression of "metallic" when I heard it, nor did I have that impression of the Beyer DT-48E. But metallic is just a word until someone narrows down the meaning. I used it in the sense that it has a sharp, clear sound, like a trumpet or bell or other hard metal object has when producing sound, although there's really no other similarity than that. Contrasting that sharpness or clarity with other headphones, the others impress me as being fuzzier (for lack of a better term), in a subtle way, not an obvious way. Most other dynamics, if they use plastic/film membranes of some kind, probably have technical advantages over stiffer metallic drivers and maybe vice-versa too, but all I have to go on are my ears, and my speculation as to why the DT-48 sounds as different as it does.

 

[maniacal71]

Oldshoes, that is what reminds me of, that these DT48, they sound like Horn Speakers and my Bose 901, (of course set up according to the maker's measurements). My DT48 is without any annotation of E/S or A, and the stylized Beyerdynamic indicates that its after the original Beyer and before the present name style, I have a DT48A on its way and new DT48E ear pads, so will do that switcheroo with the pads. Bass is also similar dB with the speakers and the cans, just that speakers produce vibes in the sub regions, so I wouldn't say the 48's have no bass or is bass light. , but just right....  and not over-emphasized as with a thousand over others. Even at really high volumes, they do not distort, that is a wonder as with the Clair Audience 2+2 speakers.
 
Again back to the ear seal, checking for a good seal, push on the cups and release, you should feel a slight vacuum pull during the release. The best and most comfortable, lines up the front edge of the pads with just a bit of the sideburn showing and also the cold aluminum can be felt and centered around the canal opening. No part of the ears are on the pads but inside the recess, similar to the SC Aviators, that's why I referred to those, because some people still think that they go "on ears".
 
 

 

[oldshoe99]

Bass response of the DT-48 depends on two things really. One is the seal, and the other is perception. I'm almost certain most people have a perception of weak bass, at least initially, because they begin listening before the seal is effective, and that very strong impression sticks with them. I know that most users will deny that they are affected by their initial impressions even after the seal becomes effective, but I would still suggest that the first impression is always far stronger in the mind than later impressions. It takes a long, long time to overcome first impressions.

So, my suggestion is to get the seal before turning on the music, which will be very difficult for people who are impatient. This applies to experienced DT-48 users as well, since we don't control our subconscious minds directly. Getting the seal is much more a time thing than a perfect position thing, although the flange with the holes should be over the ear canal. For me, when it's dry inside in the winter, getting that seal may take 3 minutes. In the summer, maybe 15 seconds, since it's humid here. If you get that seal good before you hear the first tones, your brain will like the sound better, and you'll have a better experience.

 

[RexAeterna]

the beyers sound like as much pain in the a-hole like the pioneer monitor 10's. the monitor 10's has major issue with seal and frequency changes drastically on how you move your head. the beyers also might like speaker outputs since they use aluminum voice coils. i recently made a female 1/4'' balanced TRS jack to bare speaker wire plug for my monitor 10's as an experiment and holy crap they sure do love speaker outputs(even though the manual says not to use speaker outputs....there full of it). to be honest i was just expecting only higher gain but most notice is how insane the bass impact became and the amount of clarity.

 

[oldshoe99]

the beyers sound like as much pain in the a-hole like the pioneer monitor 10's. the monitor 10's has major issue with seal and frequency changes drastically on how you move your head. the beyers also might like speaker outputs since they use aluminum voice coils. i recently made a female 1/4'' balanced TRS jack to bare speaker wire plug for my monitor 10's as an experiment and holy crap they sure do love speaker outputs(even though the manual says not to use speaker outputs....there full of it). to be honest i was just expecting only higher gain but most notice is how insane the bass impact became and the amount of clarity.

Good observations. I forgot about using the DT-48 from a speaker output. I had a Crown D60 power amp which had a 1/4 inch jack on the front, obviously for headphones I surmised. Whoa! Good thing the volume was all the way down! That jack was a feed with full power from the amp, and the background noise with the volume down was fairly strong. Once I got some resistance there, it sounded pretty good, better than my Sony, Hafler, and Yamaha integrated amps I thought.

 

[maniacal71]

Quote:

the beyers sound like as much pain in the a-hole like the pioneer monitor 10's. the monitor 10's has major issue with seal and frequency changes drastically on how you move your head. the beyers also might like speaker outputs since they use aluminum voice coils. i recently made a female 1/4'' balanced TRS jack to bare speaker wire plug for my monitor 10's as an experiment and holy crap they sure do love speaker outputs(even though the manual says not to use speaker outputs....there full of it). to be honest i was just expecting only higher gain but most notice is how insane the bass impact became and the amount of clarity.

That is really the case too, with the bass part, I have a set of ATH-7 which is designed to use the speaker outputs but the bass keeps putting them to overload, now figuring that out but my guess is to reduce the gain on the player's low freq. As for trying the DT48 with the speaker outputs, I will wait till i get one un-terminated, as I'm still hearing the bass, so no immediate plans on that yet. Anyway thanks for the tip, Rex. Monitor 10 is a monster, so are my Wharfedale DD1's, It's just a matter of getting your neck muscles worked out.

 
 

 

[oldshoe99]

That is really the case too, with the bass part, I have a set of ATH-7 which is designed to use the speaker outputs but the bass keeps putting them to overload, now figuring that out but my guess is to reduce the gain on the player's low freq. As for trying the DT48 with the speaker outputs, I will wait till i get one un-terminated, as I'm still hearing the bass, so no immediate plans on that yet. Anyway thanks for the tip, Rex. Monitor 10 is a monster, so are my Wharfedale DD1's, It's just a matter of getting your neck muscles worked out.

 
 

Be very, very careful connecting the DT-48 to a speaker output. The DT-48 can output a pulse at 30 hz or less that will blow out your eardrum. They won't play at 129 db constantly like the DT-1350, but they will generate a wave that will fry your ears.

Secondly, you are likely to get excessive noise from speaker taps, so you may need some kind of transformer. I bought such a transformer from Beyer once, to use with a 5 or 8 ohm DT-48S.