Drop x HiFiMAN HE-5XX
Oct 29, 2020 at 10:16 AM Post #121 of 589

bagwell359

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Nov 10, 2016
Posts
2,934
Likes
2,059
Location
NNW of Boston
Not sure why people are blaming HFM for this name scheme. Seems more to be a Drop thing.

Drop is a supplicant in many ways. If Drop is speaking about a revival of the HE-500 you can bet your bottom dollar its all HFM spin. If Drop was leading in name designation why not label the HE-4XX as the HE-6XX? Well HFM didn't want them too, HFM instead built and marketed the HE-6se all on their own.
 
Oct 29, 2020 at 10:45 AM Post #122 of 589

bagwell359

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Nov 10, 2016
Posts
2,934
Likes
2,059
Location
NNW of Boston
Yeah, and outside of the impotent rage of a handful of HE-500 owners or previous owners, it makes much more sense from a marketing perspective to tie it to a well received headphone from the past vs one that seemingly hasn't been a big success for them and doesn't have good name recognition. I can understand if people might find that approach a bit sleazy and dishonest on Hifiman's part (and maybe Drop as well), but they care more about making money than what a handful of people on head-fi think of them

The reactions on the other site and HF both indicate as here a sizeable group of upset people. I'm not in the market for a light weight, light bass, cheap can from any vendor. However from about the 2nd day I heard the 500 (after it was no longer made) I was interested in a remake - with a better comfort/weight, and maybe a bit more clear in the mids and bass without losing the body.

HFM certainly has proven to be master manipulators of the truth to their advantage in the past just witness the innaccurate blaring over the HE5se, HE6se - neither close to matching the bloated claims. Also the silent decrease of quality in the heavily discounted HE-560 as reported by more than a few. Now the 5XX comes before us bearing an immensely similar appearance and measurements to the Deva, and an amazingly different physical make-up, and certainly very different bass behavior compared to the HE-500.

As is common in our country, some people are fine being lied too, even embrace it, and others who have worked hard to be clear eyed have a different take. If the HE-500 wasn't invoked I never would have written a word about the 5XX, or read a review, or heard it. HFM has brought forward more onto themselves over this than almost every other vendor, because HFM makes some superb cans, but is as morally questionable in their marketing as anything I've seen.

Impotent rage? That's a good one. I was planing on buying a Susvara NIB in the Spring - I'm going back to original plan of a HD-800, and an E2 instead or a Voce and amp. Small potatoes as far as it goes, but if another 2 or 3 dozen change plans for buying Arya or above? It's a hesitation. Will they understand why? They seem much more sensitive to complaints over that past 15 months or so, so maybe so, too bad they don't have any more products to besmirch - oh no, one can have a hard time deciding what an Arya II would sound like.
 
Last edited:
Oct 29, 2020 at 10:51 AM Post #123 of 589

elwappo99

Master Blower
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Posts
4,893
Likes
384
DMS review up, he likes it, recommends it, says he contacted Drop about the obvious similarities to Deva, and they said they were unaware of its similarity and were contacting HiFiMAN about that... the plot thickens 😂

Who's running massdrop's audio department that didn't spot this in the first planning stages of this headphone?
 
Oct 29, 2020 at 10:59 AM Post #124 of 589

HipHopScribe

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Posts
1,914
Likes
698
The reactions on the other site and HF both indicate as here a sizeable group of upset people.

What you're talking about is ultimately a small number of people compared to the overall market for $200-300 headphones. This and the other site are basically echo chambers where a small number of users have their voices amplified to seem bigger than they are. I have no doubt that this will be a largely successful headphone for Drop and Hifiman in pure sales given the success of other Drop headphones like this on the market, regardless of the grumblings about the naming and marketing.

I'm not in the market for a light weight, light bass, cheap can from any vendor. However from about the 2nd day I heard the 500 (after it was no longer made) I was interested in a remake - with a better comfort/weight, and maybe a bit more clear in the mids and bass without losing the body.

HFM certainly has proven to be master manipulators of the truth to their advantage in the past just witness the innaccurate blaring over the HE5se, HE6se - neither close to matching matching the bloated claims. Also the silent decrease in theheavily discounted HE-560. Now the 5XX comes before us bearing an immensely similar appearance and measurements to the Deva, and an amazingly different physical make-up, and certainly very different bass behavior compared to the HE-500.

As is common in our country, some people are fine being lied too, even embrace it, and others who have worked hard to be clear eyed have a different take. If the HE-500 wasn't invoked I never would have written a word about the 5XX, or read a review, or heard it. HFM has brought forward more onto themselves over this than almost every other vendor, because HFM makes some superb cans, but is as morally questionable in their marketing as anything I've seen in some time.

And I understand your frustration with this move by Hifiman given their history and your experience with the HE-500, definitely. I just think in a broader perspective this kind of marketing probably works for them.
 
Oct 29, 2020 at 11:25 AM Post #125 of 589

Natarian

500+ Head-Fier
Joined
Dec 24, 2016
Posts
543
Likes
154
Location
WA
One question - I see the optional 3 year warranty for $30 but what's the normal warranty that's theoretically included? Usually it's labeled in the "what's included" section but it's not listed there from what I saw.
 
Oct 29, 2020 at 11:43 AM Post #126 of 589

bagwell359

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Nov 10, 2016
Posts
2,934
Likes
2,059
Location
NNW of Boston
What you're talking about is ultimately a small number of people compared to the overall market for $200-300 headphones. This and the other site are basically echo chambers where a small number of users have their voices amplified to seem bigger than they are. I have no doubt that this will be a largely successful headphone for Drop and Hifiman in pure sales given the success of other Drop headphones like this on the market, regardless of the grumblings about.



And I understand your frustration with this move by Hifiman given their history and your experience with the HE-500, definitely. I just think in a broader perspective this kind of marketing probably works for them.

Yes, there are cultural differences and HFM is not very interested in an almost 64 yr old man who is probably in his last round of headphone buying in the next year or two. OTOH I'm a North American that holds but one undergrad degree and that's in Marketing. By the book when you invoke a beloved former product, the product development has to supply something that may upset a max of 5% or 10%. With a bad former reputation it better be close to zero. I'd say this eruption is about 25-30% againt, but most will forget it soon. But the 8-12% left over will not forget for a long time. So they probably will net more in sales buy invoking the HE-500 than not. Well since the Russians got everyone suspicious of the "other", everything seems relative, but I'm not everyone and HFM is full of it.
 
Oct 29, 2020 at 12:19 PM Post #127 of 589

bagwell359

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Nov 10, 2016
Posts
2,934
Likes
2,059
Location
NNW of Boston
Who's running massdrop's audio department that didn't spot this in the first planning stages of this headphone?

Frick or Frack ??
 
Oct 29, 2020 at 2:37 PM Post #128 of 589

Draygonn

1000+ Head-Fier
Joined
Jul 22, 2011
Posts
1,235
Likes
142
Looks like Drop got a response on the Deva vs 5XX question and pinned an update to their discussion page.

" Is the 5XX a reskin of the DEVA? No, the driver is a completely different design. The HE-5XX has the same number of magnets as DEVA (thus comparable weight), but a dual sided magnetic structure instead of a single sided magnetic structure. Why does this matter? Because dual sided magnetic structures produce more precise diaphragm motion, which translates to otherwise unattainable detail through the mid range, high end, and upper octaves (“air”). Sub-bass also manifests in unique ways, HE-500 reviews cover this at length. Single sided structures allow for higher peak force, big mid-bass and the upper-midrange impact that some communities value. "
 
Oct 29, 2020 at 2:54 PM Post #129 of 589

trellus

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Dec 3, 2015
Posts
3,112
Likes
2,128
Location
Plano, TX
Looks like Drop got a response on the Deva vs 5XX question and pinned an update to their discussion page.

" Is the 5XX a reskin of the DEVA? No, the driver is a completely different design. The HE-5XX has the same number of magnets as DEVA (thus comparable weight), but a dual sided magnetic structure instead of a single sided magnetic structure. Why does this matter? Because dual sided magnetic structures produce more precise diaphragm motion, which translates to otherwise unattainable detail through the mid range, high end, and upper octaves (“air”). Sub-bass also manifests in unique ways, HE-500 reviews cover this at length. Single sided structures allow for higher peak force, big mid-bass and the upper-midrange impact that some communities value. "

That sounds like spin to a degree since I heard from Fang's mouth in an interview with @Resolve that the Deva featured double-sided (though asymmetrical) magnet setup. :thinking:
 
Oct 29, 2020 at 3:11 PM Post #130 of 589

sennfan83261

500+ Head-Fier
Joined
Mar 24, 2019
Posts
637
Likes
771
Location
Los Angeles
That sounds like spin to a degree since I heard from Fang's mouth in an interview with @Resolve that the Deva featured double-sided (though asymmetrical) magnet setup. :thinking:
Drop or Hifiman?

4bcolTV.gif
 
Oct 29, 2020 at 3:15 PM Post #131 of 589

trellus

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Dec 3, 2015
Posts
3,112
Likes
2,128
Location
Plano, TX
Funny thing is that the HiFiMAN CEO himself said Deva has "magnets on BOTH sides" (though asymmetrical) in a video interview on YouTube with Resolve from the Headphone Show YouTube channel.

Go look at this starting at 17:01 and at about 17:15 where he says "magnets on both sides" and @Resolve asks, "magnets on both sides for the Deva?" and Fang responds, "yeah".. . At mark 17:29 he explains that it is an asymmetric design with smaller magnets on the inside, bigger on the outside, and then he repeats at 17:42 that "for this very project... we use magnets on both sides."

So someone here is confused or not being honest -- there were early prototypes seen of the Deva with a grill that looked like the Sundara in design but silver-colored, and perhaps Fang was confused and talking about an earlier prototype of the Deva (which later was adopted by this HE-5XX) that had magnets on both sides and then later they changed it to single-sided, perhaps, but in this interview, Fang unambiguously says the Deva HAS "magnets on both sides."

The talk about Deva specifically starts at about mark 13:58.
 
Last edited:
Oct 29, 2020 at 7:24 PM Post #132 of 589
Joined
Dec 3, 2019
Posts
45
Likes
285
Location
Vancouver, BC, Canada
Funny thing is that the HiFiMAN CEO himself said Deva has "magnets on BOTH sides" (though asymmetrical) in a video interview on YouTube with Resolve from the Headphone Show YouTube channel.

Go look at this starting at 17:01 and at about 17:15 where he says "magnets on both sides" and @Resolve asks, "magnets on both sides for the Deva?" and Fang responds, "yeah".. . At mark 17:29 he explains that it is an asymmetric design with smaller magnets on the inside, bigger on the outside, and then he repeats at 17:42 that "for this very project... we use magnets on both sides."

So someone here is confused or not being honest -- there were early prototypes seen of the Deva with a grill that looked like the Sundara in design but silver-colored, and perhaps Fang was confused and talking about an earlier prototype of the Deva (which later was adopted by this HE-5XX) that had magnets on both sides and then later they changed it to single-sided, perhaps, but in this interview, Fang unambiguously says the Deva HAS "magnets on both sides."

The talk about Deva specifically starts at about mark 13:58.

Thanks for posting this. I remembered Fang Bian mentioning this in the video, but I was also confused when I saw the diagram because even if you look at the diagram they posted, it actually does show two sets of magnets, it's just that this has them pictured together (not showing the diaphragm).

1604015533886.png


So I can see where the confusion comes from. HiFiMAN did also confirm that the Deva uses double-sided magnets - I had originally got this wrong in my Deva review, and they kindly pointed it out so I made the correction since. BUT - that also doesn't mean there isn't something else going on that we don't see in the HE5XX.

The bottom line is that we don't truly know until we can try them and compare side by side with the Deva, and even if it is 'just' a Deva, it's probably still a good option at $220. My main complaint with the Deva was that while it was great for a wireless headphone (one of the best?), it was a bit pricey for anyone considering it just as a wired option, when the Sundara, HE400i and HE4XX exist.
 
Last edited:
headphones.com Stay updated on headphones.com at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
https://www.headphones.com/ andrew@headphones.com
Oct 29, 2020 at 10:52 PM Post #133 of 589

ciber

Head-Fier
Joined
Jul 14, 2019
Posts
75
Likes
79
Location
West coast
[Update] Confirmed from Drop CVP, this is really good deal.

Will Bright, Chief Product Officer and a Co-Founder at Drop, helping our product managers build the best products with our community.

Living the enthusiast life since 2003.

Headphones: Panda, HD800S, TH-X00 Ebony, Ether CX, DX2000, HD6XX, ESP95X
Headphone Amps: 789, Bottlehead Crack + Speedball, ZD Jr, ESP Energizer
Headphone DACs: SDAC, RDAC

IEMs: QDC 8SH Proto, OG UERM, FDX1

Speakers: ZU Audio Essence Mk.I-B, LSR30X
Speaker Amp: Antique Sound Lab 845 Monoblocks, Antique Sound Lab Pre-Amp
Speaker DAC: RDAC


Is the 5XX a reskin of the DEVA? No, the driver is a completely different design.

The HE-5XX has a dual sided magnetic structure instead of a single sided magnetic structure. Why does this matter? Because dual sided magnetic structures produce more precise diaphragm motion, which translates to otherwise unattainable detail through the mid range, high end, and upper octaves (“air”). Sub-bass also manifests in unique ways, HE-500 reviews cover this at length. Single sided structures allow for higher peak force, big mid-bass and the upper-midrange impact that some communities value.

Thanks for your passionate interest in our product. We can’t wait to hear your reviews once we get these in your hands. FYI- the 500 units shipping on Nov 6th and subsequent 1000 at the end of November are the only units that will be shipping in 2020.
 
Last edited:
Oct 29, 2020 at 10:53 PM Post #134 of 589
Joined
Dec 3, 2019
Posts
45
Likes
285
Location
Vancouver, BC, Canada
[Update] Confirmed from Drop CVP, this is really good deal.

Is the 5XX a reskin of the DEVA? No, the driver is a completely different design.


The HE-5XX has a dual sided magnetic structure instead of a single sided magnetic structure. Why does this matter? Because dual sided magnetic structures produce more precise diaphragm motion, which translates to otherwise unattainable detail through the mid range, high end, and upper octaves (“air”). Sub-bass also manifests in unique ways, HE-500 reviews cover this at length. Single sided structures allow for higher peak force, big mid-bass and the upper-midrange impact that some communities value.

Thanks for your passionate interest in our product. We can’t wait to hear your reviews once we get these in your hands. FYI- the 500 units shipping on Nov 6th and subsequent 1000 at the end of November are the only units that will be shipping in 2020.

Deva is also dual sided though. Check the above post. Also, even just shining a light through the Deva reveals it has magnets on both sides:

1604027739232.png

1604027756096.png
 
Last edited:
headphones.com Stay updated on headphones.com at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
https://www.headphones.com/ andrew@headphones.com

Users who are viewing this thread

Top