Drop x HiFiMAN HE-5XX
Oct 30, 2020 at 12:56 PM Post #151 of 586

sennfan83261

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But wait aren't the Hifiman velpads the stock ones?
The stock pads for the HE5XX appear to be Harmony pads (https://store.hifiman.com/index.php/harmonypad.html, $129) that are used on the Susvara, the only pads available for that earcup. However, Deva replacement pads appear to be available through Hifiman's customer service email rather than in their store, so it is probably best to go through that route when ordering replacement pads for the HE5XX (Hifiman's customer service has been top notch in my experience).

The velpads ($15) came stock with the HE400i HE400S and are also my favorite (so far) with the HE-500 (I have yet to try the Ether angled or the Ether Suedes). The velpads are made with softer, or less dense, foam and are angled; the old school Hifiman velours were not angled, had really dense foam, and were uncomfortable to me. In contrast to the old school stock velours, the velpads are really comfortable. Furthermore, they opened up the sound of the HE-500 compared to TH900 (AHG) and Ori clones that I had lying around. Also, with the velpads, the mids are less dipped in the HE-500 compared to the focus pads. Unfortunately, the velpads appear to be out of stock at the moment.
 
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Oct 30, 2020 at 1:06 PM Post #152 of 586

SilverEars

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The stock pads for the HE5XX appear to be Harmony pads (https://store.hifiman.com/index.php/harmonypad.html, $129) that are used on the Susvara, the only pads available for that earcup. However, Deva replacement pads appear to be available through Hifiman's customer service email rather in than in their store, so it is probably best to go through that route when ordering replacement pads for the HE5XX (Hifiman's customer service has been top notch in my experience).

The velpads ($15) came stock with the HE400i and are also my favorite (so far) with the HE-500 (I have yet to try the Ether angled or the Ether Suedes). The velpads are made with softer, or less dense, foam and are angled; the old school Hifiman velours were not angled, had really dense foam, and were uncomfortable to me. In contrast to the old school stock velours, the velpads are really comfortable. Furthermore, they opened up the sound of the HE-500 compared to TH900 (AHG) and Ori clones that I had lying around. Also, with the velpads, the mids are less dipped in the HE-500 compared to the focus pads. Unfortunately, the velpads appear to be out of stock at the moment.
To add, @cskippy measured all the pads, and it plainly shows what pads does to the overall response. So, it is objectively proven pelipads on classic Hifimans recesses the upper-mids. You can also hear the difference as well.

Even if the classic HE500 didn't come with proper pads for the most ideal response, for I personally, all is forgiven since the optimal response was found with pad experimentation and Hifimans let the pads be easily detachable. For a lot of us, it is kinda obvious that the drivers in some of the classics like HE500 or HE6 had high techical potential.
 
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Oct 30, 2020 at 1:26 PM Post #153 of 586

SilverEars

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Measurements like efficiency and physical layout show that they are dead ringers for each other. They do not have an identical FR to the Deva, but, they both have bass thats quite close to the HD-600 on transistors - meaning starts to fade around 100 Hz, -5 db at 35 Hz, and -10 db at 20 Hz. That is certainly not a match for the HE-500.
I realized bass is not easy to figure out based on measurements. Just straight up loundness per frequencies really don't cut it in terms of expressing the qualities of the bass. I've seen slight decline of HEDDphone bass, and expected light bass, and it was the opposite (if driven properly, as they are as inefficient as the HE500s). Similarly, a Hifiman may look linear in the bass, but can lack umph. So, bass region is not so straightforward from measurements. One example of an obvious one is of course the classic Sennheiser roll-offs, and there's no denying them from measurements. So, there are straightforward instances as well.

I agree that 5XX label is part of marketing. It sounds like it's essentially a Deva, and they should have called it Drop X Deva or something to be transparent with the consumers.
 
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Oct 30, 2020 at 2:07 PM Post #154 of 586

trellus

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Will has responded again to clarify, this time seemingly possibly conceding that maybe the Deva, too, have magnets on both sides but that not making them at all necessarily identical due to differences in implementation:

“Hey Trellus, thanks for your interest in the product can't wait to get it in your hands. I'm glad you're not mad, I am a little mad at this situation TBH.

We explain this is a unique driver design, somebody posts "It looks the same as other thing so it is the same", and I'm back here explaining that you can't water crops with brawndo.

Here are some performance determining factors that carry no visual indicator:

What's the strength of the magnetic array and orientation of the field? If you have magnets on both sides, but it's tuned for 90/10 ratio of strength on one side, it's essentially a single sided structure, and it'll sound like a single sided structure.

What about the strength of individual magnets in the array? If the outer magnets are stronger than the inner magnets, sound and performance will be different.

What about the diaphragm tension and coating treatments? Higher and lower tension completely change the sound and distortion characteristics. Nano-meters of thickness in the diaphragm make a difference so surface laminates and treatments have a HUGE impact on sound for planar drivers.

The 5XX's magnetic field makeup is unique, the magnet array design is unique, the diaphragm tension and coatings are unique.

Anyway /rant, I'm excited to get these shipped and see the reviews
.”
 
Oct 30, 2020 at 2:20 PM Post #155 of 586
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You'd think the people upset it ain't an updated 500 would've moved on by now. Apparently not.
 
Oct 30, 2020 at 2:23 PM Post #156 of 586

HipHopScribe

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Will has responded again to clarify, this time seemingly possibly conceding that maybe the Deva, too, have magnets on both sides but that not making them at all necessarily identical due to differences in implementation:

“Hey Trellus, thanks for your interest in the product can't wait to get it in your hands. I'm glad you're not mad, I am a little mad at this situation TBH.

We explain this is a unique driver design, somebody posts "It looks the same as other thing so it is the same", and I'm back here explaining that you can't water crops with brawndo.

Here are some performance determining factors that carry no visual indicator:

What's the strength of the magnetic array and orientation of the field? If you have magnets on both sides, but it's tuned for 90/10 ratio of strength on one side, it's essentially a single sided structure, and it'll sound like a single sided structure.

What about the strength of individual magnets in the array? If the outer magnets are stronger than the inner magnets, sound and performance will be different.

What about the diaphragm tension and coating treatments? Higher and lower tension completely change the sound and distortion characteristics. Nano-meters of thickness in the diaphragm make a difference so surface laminates and treatments have a HUGE impact on sound for planar drivers.

The 5XX's magnetic field makeup is unique, the magnet array design is unique, the diaphragm tension and coatings are unique.

Anyway /rant, I'm excited to get these shipped and see the reviews
.”

So in one response he says about the Deva, "this is a single sided magnetic structure" and in the next he says "if you have magnets on both sides, but it's tuned for 90/10 ratio of strength on one side, it's essentially a single sided structure, and it'll sound like a single sided structure"

Why all this confusion? Either the Deva is single-sided or it isn't, there's no such thing as being "doubled-sided but essentially single-sided" lol

Maybe the Deva and 5XX are both double-sided but different designs and sonic characteristics as a result, but then they should just say that in the first place

Someone needs to take apart a Deva and settle at least this part of the issue
 
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Oct 30, 2020 at 3:09 PM Post #158 of 586

trellus

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So in one response he says about the Deva, "this is a single sided magnetic structure" and in the next he says "if you have magnets on both sides, but it's tuned for 90/10 ratio of strength on one side, it's essentially a single sided structure, and it'll sound like a single sided structure"

Why all this confusion? Either the Deva is single-sided or it isn't, there's no such thing as being "doubled-sided but essentially single-sided" lol

Maybe the Deva and 5XX are both double-sided but different designs and sonic characteristics as a result, but then they should just say that in the first place

Someone needs to take apart a Deva and settle at least this part of the issue

As @Resolve points out in his response to Will’s post explaining more about the other factors related to the configuration of the magnets, you can shine a light through the Deva and see there are magnets on both sides without even opening it up - I haven’t tried that but it would seem to answer the question definitively.
 
Oct 30, 2020 at 4:00 PM Post #159 of 586

ciber

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If you are passionate enough to gossip around and poop on the entire collaboration line solely based on speculations, why not try them yourself and, well I don't know, be your own judge like an adult instead of relying solely on a few internet gossips and opinions of reviewers who most likely have different taste and ears?

Why can't we learn the lesson? A lot of people were passionate to spread the rumor about Sennheiser HD 58X and HD 660S. Oh, they have the same look, same impedance, and very similar frequency range. Even the shape of the driver look very similar and rumors were rampant across the community. For crying out loud, there are people who still believe this to be the case. We now know that this is absolutely not true.
 
Oct 30, 2020 at 4:34 PM Post #161 of 586

cel4145

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You know... he should really learn how to engage with his customers without insulting their intelligence...

You mean ignorance, right? I know that you can't tell if a planar magnetic driver is the same between two different headphone models simply by looking at it. I'm sure others do, too.

Maybe it's time some people learn that visual and audio perception are often not reliable for evaluating audio/audio devices :wink:
 
Oct 30, 2020 at 4:51 PM Post #162 of 586
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I posted this on the Drop thread, but figured I'd post it here as well just incase there's still any confusion about the Deva driver being single or double sided. I took the driver out of the housing, and here are both sides of it, clearly showing a magnet array on both sides. What's also interesting here is that it doesn't appear to be as asymmetrical as originally thought. It may still be, as far as magnet strength goes, but even when testing that it felt pretty similar. Note the different screws on each side - so you know it's not just the same side of the driver from different angles.

IMG_20201030_125914.jpg


IMG_20201030_125925.jpg
 
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Oct 30, 2020 at 4:53 PM Post #163 of 586

iucoen

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You mean ignorance, right? I know that you can't tell if a planar magnetic driver is the same between two different headphone models simply by looking at it. I'm sure others do, too.

Maybe it's time some people learn that visual and audio perception are often not reliable for evaluating audio/audio devices :wink:
No I meant intelligence. "water crops with brawndo" is a reference to the movie Idiocracy. So he's calling those people "idiots".

Look, I agree that ultimately it's about the sound quality. Personally, I don't care if HE5xx is basically the Deva, as long as the sound quality is worth $220. I put in my order on the first day. Then seeing Will's post making false claims about the Deva made me decide to cancel my order. It just sounds to me like they slapped their logo on something and they don't know what it is. I will wait for more reviews to come out before putting in my order.
 
Oct 30, 2020 at 5:01 PM Post #164 of 586
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No I meant intelligence. "water crops with brawndo" is a reference to the movie Idiocracy. So he's calling those people "idiots".

Look, I agree that ultimately it's about the sound quality. Personally, I don't care if HE5xx is basically the Deva, as long as the sound quality is worth $220. I put in my order on the first day. Then seeing Will's post making false claims about the Deva made me decide to cancel my order. It just sounds to me like they slapped their logo on something and they don't know what it is. I will wait for more reviews to come out before putting in my order.

Ehh it's an easy mistake to make. I also originally assumed the Deva was single-sided because of the diagram until HiFiMAN corrected me. To your point about the price, it's probably still worth it. I was just listening to the Deva again and that's easily worth $220. I would probably still prefer the HD6XX, but again that's another crazy value headphone in the price range, and the Deva has way better soundstage and spaciousness. Tradeoffs.
 
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Oct 30, 2020 at 5:01 PM Post #165 of 586

The Third

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To add, @cskippy measured all the pads, and it plainly shows what pads does to the overall response. So, it is objectively proven pelipads on classic Hifimans recesses the upper-mids. You can also hear the difference as well.

Even if the classic HE500 didn't come with proper pads for the most ideal response, for I personally, all is forgiven since the optimal response was found with pad experimentation and Hifimans let the pads be easily detachable. For a lot of us, it is kinda obvious that the drivers in some of the classics like HE500 or HE6 had high techical potential.
Nice I just ordered two pair of velpads through ebay, I really wonder how differently they'll sound compared to the stock velour HE-500 pads.
 

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