[leeperry]

Originally Posted by IPodPJ /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
cables take time to build by hand.  People charge for their labor. 
 

I wasn't mentioning those +$1K USB cables that take 2 weeks to manufacture(or so they say), I'm talking about the top of the range WireWorld's for instance...and no, they're not built by hand. They're made in China for a few bucks top. I let you imagine what kind of markup is made on those. It's legal stealing, nothing else.

 

[vandaven]

Hum, it's really nice that so many contribute with opinions, or the opinions and tests of other people. But that just doesn't help at all.
As some of you might know, I did tests which led to my opinion, I was not opinionated from the beginning. 
 
To really contribute to this thread, post some hard data. It's simply not enough to say "I have a Audioquest / Locus / Wireworld / Oyaide cable and it contributes to my system!". That's like boasting "I saw a pink dragon yesterday". It's also not enough to simply discuss papers and theory. If anybody out there honestly wants to convince me or anybody else who is referred to as a "heretic" or "skeptic", go and re-record the signal from your audio interface. Even if you only have a standard line-in on your computer, it's enough to show a significant difference on inverse summing comparison.
 
If you don't have the measurement possibilities:
 
As already stated, I can offer a test sequence that you can play back, record, and send me via internet, so I can align it sample-precise and I will do my best to analyze it.
 
Thanks.
 

 

[svyr]

WRT audbile jitter levels, http://www.3daudioinc.com/3db/showthread.php?12836-Grekim-and-Ethan-test-dither-jitter-A-D Ethan Winers and other AES presenter/contributor people have already been on the topic. (also worth looking at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ and http://www.ethanwiner.com/aes/ as linked to before). I'm sure if you look further, you'll find more info about audible levels for music and tones.

 

[leeperry]

yea, USB jitter when using isichronous USB controllers is a tale to scare little children off.

 

[throzen0303]

I tried the Forest Cable, seems to make no difference at all, is it my setup not good enough to show the difference? or is the cable

 

[Shike]

Quote:

I tried the Forest Cable, seems to make no difference at all, is it my setup not good enough to show the difference? or is the cable

You're missing the 3rd possibility: there's nothing wrong with the cable, but it doesn't make a difference over another.

 

[drez]

honestly I think any [unproven] difference a USB cable might make pales in comparison to the differences a) getting a better asynchronous transport or b) considering clock irregularities introduced from the computers USB controller as well as hardware/software latency issues.
 
The result of adding an audiophile USB cable could quite possibly be a drop in the ocean - or have no significant improvement in jitter performance at all.
 
Found some interesting audiophool USB - related [overpriced] products that might resurrect this thread here.  As with all audiophile products technical info ( on the tX-USB) is skint, but at least this looks interesting.
 
Does bring into question though the whole rationale of using an expensive USB cable to connect an otherwise flawed (or quite possibly adequate) USB controller and computer to a transport/DAC.
 
Recently I just tested a blue jeans cable coax BNC, compared to an audiophile 75 ohm solid silver cored RCA,  between my AudioGD DI and NFB-10 ES and found absolutely NO reliably discernable difference - easy to test too - just flick back an forth between digital inputs with switch. 
 
I can say with absolute certainty that it made no immediately obvious difference which could reliably be discerned, playing FLAC with my system, with my perfectly functional ears.  
 
If I had someone else flick the switch (the music is not interrupted) I would not be able to tell at all when the switch was changed, let alone which cable was on or which was better.  QED

 

[svyr]

honestly I think any [unproven] difference a USB cable might make pales in comparison to the differences a) getting a better asynchronous transport or b) considering clock irregularities introduced from the computers USB controller as well as hardware/software latency issues.
 
The result of adding an audiophile USB cable could quite possibly be a drop in the ocean - or have no significant improvement in jitter performance at all.
 
Found some interesting audiophool USB - related [overpriced] products that might resurrect this thread here.  As with all audiophile products technical info ( on the tX-USB) is skint, but at least this looks interesting.
 
Does bring into question though the whole rationale of using an expensive USB cable to connect an otherwise flawed (or quite possibly adequate) USB controller and computer to a transport/DAC.
 
Recently I just tested a blue jeans cable coax BNC, compared to an audiophile 75 ohm solid silver cored RCA,  between my AudioGD DI and NFB-10 ES and found absolutely NO reliably discernable difference - easy to test too - just flick back an forth between digital inputs with switch. 
 
I can say with absolute certainty that it made no difference which could reliably be discerned, playing FLAC with my system, with my perfectly functional ears.  
 
If I had someone else flick the switch (the music is not interrupted) I would not be able to tell at all when the switch was changed, let alone which cable was on or which was better.  QED

>Depth : 150 mmDual full size high quality oscillator

I loled.

 

[drez]

what don't you measure dimensions in "mmDual full size high quality oscillator" - its common practice in audiophile territory i thought? 

 

[BlackbeardBen]

I use three of those cards.  One for my mouse to ensure the utmost accuracy, one for my external hard drives to ensure the highest quality transfers, and one for my USB card reader to make sure I don't lose any pixels when I load photos from my camera.

 

[drez]

do i detect satire?

 

[leeperry]

well, at some point I was using a cheapo poorly soldered USB3 Nec PCI-E card bought on ebay for dirt cheap...and it did change the sound to my ears on my TE7022L adaptive transport, compared to the Intel USB2 ports of my s775 mobo.

it seemed to make the SS wider but there was also a major lack of percussion in the bass...the old goofy story of "binary is only 0's and 1's" doesn't stand for digital connections...an out of specs USB data flow will go wreck on an adaptive transport.

I then decided to get a proper branded MSI USB3 board, and it sounded exactly like the mobo USB...narrower SS and deep percussive low end bass. The main problem w/ USB audio to my eyes is about getting proper gear that's within specs.

 

[jackmccabe]

Quote:

well, at some point I was using a cheapo poorly soldered USB3 Nec PCI-E card bought on ebay for dirt cheap...and it did change the sound to my ears on my TE7022L adaptive transport, compared to the Intel USB2 ports of my s775 mobo.

it seemed to make the SS wider but there was also a major lack of percussion in the bass...the old goofy story of "binary is only 0's and 1's" doesn't stand for digital connections...an out of specs USB data flow will go wreck on an adaptive transport.

I then decided to get a proper branded MSI USB3 board, and it sounded exactly like the mobo USB...narrower SS and deep percussive low end bass. The main problem w/ USB audio to my eyes is about getting proper gear that's within specs.

There is no way you can hear the difference between usb ports.
Also unless a usb source is broken all dacs will work perfectly with them.
 
I don't understand why people seem to think that usb cables/ports would effect the bass or soundstage.
It is undeniable that usb sends 1's and 0's, so it is ridiculous to assume the signal is being distorted in a way that only effects certain elements, it's just impossible.
 

 

[leeperry]

Originally Posted by jackmccabe /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
There is no way you can hear the difference between usb ports. [..]
I don't understand why people seem to think that usb cables/ports would effect the bass or soundstage.
 

 
Oh great, you know what I hear better than I do. Are you a proud member of team "everything sounds the same to me"? You know, the team that says that all opamps sound the same, that a Realtek and a STX are impossible to DBT, that all PSU's sound the same(noisy SMPS or low ripple linear regulated = same!), etc etc. I really wish all the USB boards and USB cables sounded the exact same, this would have saved me a lot of headaches

 

[tmars78]

Quote:

 
Oh great, you know what I hear better that I do. Are you a proud member of team "everything sounds the same to me"? You know, the team that says that all opamps sound the same, that a Realtek and a STX are impossible to DBT, that all PSU's sound the same(noisy SMPS or low ripple linear regulated = same!), etc etc. I really wish all the USB boards and USB cables sounded the exact same, this would have saved me a lot of headaches

And you should know that "what I hear is truth" doesn't fly in this section of the forum. You know, I can tell the difference between USB hubs too. The ones I use on my computer now all seem to have a warrior drum playing faintly in the background, while the other ones didn't have it. Don't tell me its not there, cause I can hear it.