[lee730]

Quote:

I can't believe he thinks they sound the same.

Well placebo can also reach over to the hardcore-objective side, even if it's based on expectations of a negative outcome (bias ...

 

[skamp]

What do you know about placebo, exactly? Have you ever conducted proper ABX sessions?

And what is your "knowledge" regarding audio, exactly, besides highly biased, 100% subjective impressions?

 

[Achmedisdead]

Quote:

Clip has a darker and warmer sound

I've never heard the Clip series described as dark before....

I had the Classic for a little while and it sounded pretty darn close to my Clip Zip.  My 5.5G, on the other hand, does sound noticeably different from the Sansa.

 

[skamp]

Alright, Lee, or anyone who's interested: time to put your money where your mouth is.

Please choose 2 songs (a 1st choice and a 2nd choice), and I'll try to get a hold of the 1st one, or failing that, the 2nd one. I'll make a 30 seconds clip out of it. I'll play it through a variety of devices, including the Clip+ and the iPod Classic, and I'll record the outputs. I'll volume match and sample align the recordings. I'll post them online, and I'll ask you to identify at least one of the clips as being either the Clip+ or the iPod. You can also rate them in order of preference, and better yet, run a proper ABX session with any two clips.

How about that? Any takers? Lee?

Edit: I will also make a text file, listing which is which. I will not post that text file online immediately, obviously, but I will post the MD5 sum of that file, so that you will be able to verify later on that I didn't tamper with it just to prove my point.

 

[ostewart]

I would like to see this, I would be up for it, but I may not be able to tell the difference. I known and accept what I cannot hear

 

[tupac0306]

 

 

[punks15]

 
 
 
Quote:

I've never heard the Clip series described as dark before....

I had the Classic for a little while and it sounded pretty darn close to my Clip Zip.  My 5.5G, on the other hand, does sound noticeably different from the Sansa.

 
Not dark, but a bit darker than my previous ipods, No experience with 5.5 though

 

[saratoga]

Without rockboxing, IPC has more power. Clip+ (rockboxed) sound good and can drive earphones way louder than IPC, but also sounds more aggressive than IPC IMO. But the good thing is you can always EQ it. You can also rockbox IPC too which will make it sound identical and have the same functions as the rockboxed clip.
 
I am sure you heard of that IPC sounds like cold boiled water not much of emotions but present music as the way it is.

 
Unless you're volume capped, the Classic actually goes louder then the Clip by about 1 dB. 
 
 
 

 
Quote:

What about the soundstage and imaging skampie babes? How come I hear differences in those areas, and timbre, separation, dynamics, note thickness, detailing levels...etc.

 
 
They're both directly coupled, spectrally flat low impedance amps, so my guess would be a lack of proper volume matching.  Thats usually the cause when someone reports a difference in dynamics, timbre, etc in two very neutral devices.  People tend to hear differences in volume like that.  How did you volume match? 

 

[H20Fidelity]

They're both directly coupled, spectrally flat low impedance amps, so my guess would be a lack of proper volume matching.  Thats usually the cause when someone reports a difference in dynamics, timbre, etc in two very neutral devices.  People tend to hear differences in volume like that.  How did you volume match? 

I don't believe you sorry, I clearly hear differences in these area's. I don't really care how much someone try's to convince me otherwise. < That's how I volume matched. I've seen these arguments several times over and over on these boards and I'm staying on my side of the fence. The Clip+ and iPod Classic do not sound the same.

And I'm afraid we'll have to leave it at that, you in your world, me in mine. And of course skamp in his own little world entirely.

 

[saratoga]

Quote:

I don't believe you sorry, I clearly hear differences in these area's. I don't really care how much someone try's to convince me otherwise. < That's how I volume matched. I've seen these arguments several times over and over on these boards and I'm staying on my side of the fence. The Clip+ and iPod Classic do not sound the same.
 

 
FWIW if you don't volume match you will likely get very wrong results.  Its actually very important that you do that.  

 

[skamp]

I clearly hear differences in these area's […] The Clip+ and iPod Classic do not sound the same.

Prove it. I'm still waiting for Lee to choose two songs. Maybe you could choose two yourself? Lee's claims and yours are completely hollow so far.

 

[David]

My claims are entirely hollow too, and I certainly can't be bothered unrolling loads of charts.
 
However, I like listening to stuff on my Clip. I can get tons of detail and volume out of it, and it sounds good to me, which is all that is important. I am sort of attached to it, and would miss it if it broke.
 
If I try using any sort of iPod (my wife is a fan), I just don't like the sound. Simple as that. Can't say why. It just comes across as slightly ... uneventful. Nothing terrible, but if I were American, I would certainly reach for the word "Meh."
 
I do get the "dark" remark, though. I suspect it was coined by a clarinet player. It is exactly the extra bit of richness you get from a Buffet RC over an R13. (Not that I use either - strictly old school Boosey & Hawkes driver, me...)

 

[skamp]

It's been three days and neither lee730 or H20Fidelity have risen to the challenge. It's pretty clear that they're chicken and full of it, and like every other self-proclaimed "audiophile", they'll just keep on pulling hollow claims out of their hats. Nothing new there.

:rolleyes:

 

[David]

Could be they went off to do something more rewarding?
 
Anyway, all audiophiles take care of their hearing. Banging one's head against a brick wall has long been a thoroughly proven contraindication.

 

[skamp]

Could be they went off to do something more rewarding?

Do you consider making hollow claims all day long to be more rewarding than actually proving their claims?

This isn't an isolated case. Audiophiles almost never back-up their claims. Funny how both of them vanished as soon as I challenged them. They usually try to save face by mocking the challenge, the challenger or the methodology, and that's the end of that.