[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally posted by Sovkiller 5. Who've tried the tweak in question and is absolutelly sure that in fact it does nothing to the sound at all, and all of the stated "improvements" are just as result of a marketing strategy to sell a product (or a device).....or others placebo effect.

The difference between this and my category 4 is that one is an empiricist while the other is a zealot...and doesn't leave himself a lot of slack if it turns out he's wrong. In the end, we don't know everything there is to know. Anyone who forgets that stops questioning...and stops discovering.

There is a very fine dividing line between category 5 and category 6: the deaf. In the end, if you can't hear something, that's all it means. You can't hear it.

 

[DarkAngel]

I have the Bedini Ultra II, with some visual enhancements of my own doing:

Ultra II

Notice I set unit on a towel since unit vibrates a lot when spinning and this make things quiet.

Do they work.........very small effect that can be hard to detect, but when combined with Auric Illuminator & Marigo Crossbow Matt
the triple tweaked CD is noticeably improved vs stock CD ( I own some duplicate Cds just to test tweaked vs stock CD)

Like Hirsch said though, almost becoming vinyl like ritual to prepare CD for playback

(I must admit I often don't use Bedini because it slows me down)

 

[kuma]

Quote:

Originally posted by DarkAngel Notice I set unit on a towel since unit vibrates a lot when spinning and this make things quiet.

Very coool. When I had it I used Isobearings underneath to control the vibration.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally posted by Hirsch In the end, if you can't hear something, that's all it means. You can't hear it.

And there is always "something" to hear? Or maybe sometimes there is, in fact, nothing to hear, (and someone trying to make us believe that, sometimes even making us feel uncomfortable of our hearing....just to sell something).....

 

[kuma]

Quote:

Originally posted by Sovkiller And there is always "something" to hear? Or maybe sometimes there is, in fact, nothing to hear, (and someone trying to make us believe that, sometimes even making us feel uncomfortable of our hearing....just to sell something).....

hehehe. i prefer a power strip that has NO sonic signature of own than the one with coloring, for instance.

 

[ServinginEcuador]

Quote:

Originally posted by Sovkiller And there is always "something" to hear? Or maybe sometimes there is, in fact, nothing to hear, (and someone trying to make us believe that, sometimes even making us feel uncomfortable of our hearing....just to sell something).....

Trues, some stuff is snake oil, but to jump from SOME is a rip off to ALL is a ripoff is just as illogical. Some of the stuff out there is pure junk. Others are revolutionary. It can be hit or miss unless you hear form someone you trust.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally posted by ServinginEcuador Trues, some stuff is snake oil, but to jump from SOME is a rip off to ALL is a ripoff is just as illogical. Some of the stuff out there is pure junk. Others are revolutionary. It can be hit or miss unless you hear form someone you trust.

This is also a big true, and BTW I never said that all of the tweaks are a rip off, IMO most of them works, more or less, in one way or the other, sometimes as, or not as stated by the manufacturers, and sometimes not as expected by us, or at least not to our ears... but there are also a lot of ripoffs....

 

[ServinginEcuador]

Quote:

Originally posted by Sovkiller This is also a big true, and BTW I never said that all of the tweaks are a rip off, IMO most of them works, more or less, in one way or the other, sometimes as, or not as stated by the manufacturers, and sometimes not as expected by us, or at least not to our ears... but there are also a lot of ripoffs....

Cool. I'm okay wit you believing and thinking the way you do. I didn't want to make the assertion that you thought all were snake oil, so sorry if it came across that way. I just wanted to make that point. Some stuff works, some is total junk. I agree with some of the stuff I read about products, and doubt an almost equal amount. I guess until I hear from some independent testers on these items I will keep an open mind.

 

[Sovkiller]

But sometimes you have to agree with me that there are some tweaks that are very hard to believe, as they have no phyical or scientific explanation at all, (and even some of them turns out ot be true) and I believe in others to certain point, from this point on, I consider them placebo effect, or at least not for me or my wallet (not the same cathegory, or one or the other OK?)....to spend thousands of dolards just to get a very small % of improvement that makes no sense for me neither....

 

[ServinginEcuador]

I fully agree. I also know that science can't explain everything, and that leaves it up to our ears to determine. I for one don't just treat a CD and say this stuff works. I try to get a second copy of the disc and then A/B the first and second. If I hear something, it works. If I don't, it doesn't. It is just too hard to rely on memory on how something sounds to make an accurate judgement that excludes placebo affects.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

Quote:

Originally posted by Sovkiller And there is always "something" to hear? Or maybe sometimes there is, in fact, nothing to hear...

I have to concur with this. I would put myself in category 7 -- those who have heard a tweak, and on some tweaks they hear a difference, and on others, they don't. This doesn't necessarily mean that the tweak does or does not work, or that the listener is sensitive or not, it just means that the change by one tweak is within the threshold of hearing, and the change by another is not.

 

[Tomcat]

Quote:

Originally posted by ServinginEcuador I try to get a second copy of the disc and then A/B the first and second. If I hear something, it works.

Doug,

This test of yours might not be conclusive. I have compared several copies of the same CD, and they didn't sound identical. It was close, and there was obviously no re-mastering involved, but they were different. Why? I don't know. Different production runs?

 

[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally posted by Dusty Chalk I have to concur with this. I would put myself in category 7 -- those who have heard a tweak, and on some tweaks they hear a difference, and on others, they don't. This doesn't necessarily mean that the tweak does or does not work, or that the listener is sensitive or not, it just means that the change by one tweak is within the threshold of hearing, and the change by another is not.

Do we need a new category for this? Remember, someone who appoaches a tweak empirically will eventually wind up in category 1 or 4. Sometime you hear it, sometimes you don't.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

Hey! Did this thread get split? I confused...

Quote:

Originally posted by Hirsch Do we need a new category for this? Remember, someone who appoaches a tweak empirically will eventually wind up in category 1 or 4. Sometime you hear it, sometimes you don't.

(It's so refreshing when someone actually "gets" me.)

Well, it just struck me that categories 1 and 4 were "always" type categories, whereas mine was basically an "it depends" type. If one were to categorize solely on one particular tweak, then I would concur, but that's not the impression I got, based on the phrasing.

 

[ServinginEcuador]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tomcat Doug, This test of yours might not be conclusive. I have compared several copies of the same CD, and they didn't sound identical. It was close, and there was obviously no re-mastering involved, but they were different. Why? I don't know. Different production runs?

Tomcat,

I guess what you would have to do is verify that they both sounded the same BEFORE treating one of them to eliminate the quandry you posited here. Once you have verified that they sound alike you could then treat one and see if it makes a change.

Good catch!