[Currawong]

 
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I felt that the amps and DACs I've owned which have simpler power supplies in them were more affected by power components, including the cables, but regardless of that...
 
...this is my advice. 

I find that some power conditioners has a tendency to restrict dynamics on the amp, so audition is mandatory. Just like power cords and audio cables, some can improve certain area on your sound system but degrade sound quality in another area.

 
Agreed. My Phoenix already has a considerable power supply and doesn't seem to benefit from filtering. However, it doesn't seem to be affected, much, if at all, by different power cables. On the other hand, I had a Northstar M192 which I thought sounded dull. Just before I sold it, I tried it with one of the first "audiophile" power cables I'd bought, and the sound was much improved, so I felt at the time. The better DAC I replaced it with, however, was a far bigger improvement.

 

[DaveBSC]

 
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I find that some power conditioners has a tendency to restrict dynamics on the amp, so audition is mandatory. Just like power cords and audio cables, some can improve certain area on your sound system but degrade sound quality in another area.

 
Most series type conditioners will do that. They are dirt cheap to make and adequately effective at dealing with line noise, the downside is that they are incapable of dealing with the type of huge instantaneous current that large amplifiers demand.
 

 
Big 15 or 20 Amp transformers on the other hand will not choke when feeding amplifiers.
 

 
You get what you pay for, unless you buy a Shunyata Hydra in which case you get a nice box that's mostly filled with air.

 

[liamstrain]

Holy crap. Look at the toroid in that beast. 0.o

 

[Chris J]

 
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Agreed. My Phoenix already has a considerable power supply and doesn't seem to benefit from filtering. However, it doesn't seem to be affected, much, if at all, by different power cables. On the other hand, I had a Northstar M192 which I thought sounded dull. Just before I sold it, I tried it with one of the first "audiophile" power cables I'd bought, and the sound was much improved, so I felt at the time. The better DAC I replaced it with, however, was a far bigger improvement.

 
The problem with this is what is a "considerable power supply"?
Just because it has a large transformer and large power supply capacitors in it doesn't mean that it does a good job of filtering out EMI and RFI. etc.
No offence meant, I'm just saying big caps and big transformers do not necessarily mean high quality & good powerline noise immunity.

 

[DaveBSC]

 
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I'm just saying big caps and big transformers do not necessarily mean high quality & good powerline noise immunity.

 
Indeed not. That has more to do with current demand, not necessarily noise immunity. Newer switch mode supplies are tiny and yet are excellent at rejecting noise and voltage variance issues.

 

[goodvibes]

Don't care for switch modes in general. Need lots of filtering beyond DC smoothing.

 

[Chris J]

 
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Indeed not. That has more to do with current demand, not necessarily noise immunity. Newer switch mode supplies are tiny and yet are excellent at rejecting noise and voltage variance issues.

 
True, but Switch Mode Power Supplies can also create a lot of noise.

 

[sonq]

 
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Agreed. My Phoenix already has a considerable power supply and doesn't seem to benefit from filtering. However, it doesn't seem to be affected, much, if at all, by different power cables. On the other hand, I had a Northstar M192 which I thought sounded dull. Just before I sold it, I tried it with one of the first "audiophile" power cables I'd bought, and the sound was much improved, so I felt at the time. The better DAC I replaced it with, however, was a far bigger improvement.

 
I tend to be more willing to spend on amp/dac/speaker or phones than cables and accessories, but I do make exceptions when the improvement is really drastic.
 
Anyway, conditioner doesn't really work that well on my system beyond the DAC, so I may try this instead http://www.acoustic-revive.com/english/rtp/rtp_01.html
 

 

[sonq]

 
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Big 15 or 20 Amp transformers on the other hand will not choke when feeding amplifiers.
 

 
You get what you pay for, unless you buy a Shunyata Hydra in which case you get a nice box that's mostly filled with air.

 
 
Looks like their smaller $500 Hydra 2 is worth an audition.
http://www.stereotimes.com/acc020805.shtml
 

 

[DaveBSC]

 
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Looks like their smaller $500 Hydra 2 is worth an audition.
http://www.stereotimes.com/acc020805.shtml

 
I wasn't joking - Hydras are literally mostly air inside. Pretty case, about $5 worth of noise suppression caps, and a couple of outlets. $5 is being generous actually, Shunyata probably buys them in bulk quantity for next to nothing. The little black square cap across the outlet next to the buss bar, that's it. That's the whole thing. That's what you're paying $500+ for. You can buy those little caps retail for a few dollars and make your own Hydra. If there's a bigger joke in the AC line conditioner industry, I don't know what it is.
 


 
If you're looking for something around the $500 level, check out the Majik Buss and the BPT CPC. Don't waste your money on Shunyata.
 
 
 

 

[DaBomb77766]

More stuff doesn't always mean better though.  It's how the stuff that's there is used.  Often if they arrange things to look pretty it compromises the performance.  But I agree that $5 of materials and say a $50 enclosure shouldn't be sold for $500, that is a bit much.

 

[DaveBSC]

 
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More stuff doesn't always mean better though.  It's how the stuff that's there is used.  Often if they arrange things to look pretty it compromises the performance.  But I agree that $5 of materials and say a $50 enclosure shouldn't be sold for $500, that is a bit much.

 
Agreed. I wasn't saying that those little caps don't do anything, just that the Hydras are comically overpriced. The model I pictured was the $995 Hydra 4. It consists of a breaker, a MOV (the same type used in $20 Walmart power strips) two outlets connected by buss bars, and two noise suppression caps. I'd be surprised if the whole thing including the case cost Shunyata more than $75. They are a business and they need to make money, but 1300% markup is a little excessive.
 
If I'm buying a serious conditioner I want something that uses serious components and is not just a cynical cash grab. Here's what I consider to be the best. Obviously all of these products make a profit for the companies that make them, but they aren't something you could throw together yourself in an afternoon for $50.
 


 
 




 
 
 

 

[Griploc]

This is an old thread but I would like to put my own input into this since I do have extensive listening test experience.

I am an audio engineer and music producer of over 13 years.
I am currently using all Stefan Audioart Endorphin PC, and endorphin power adapter, as well as all Endorphin Alchem XLR ribbon interconnects for all audio inputs and outputs. I am also using an endorphin USB cable that connects my apogee symphony IO to my IMac.
I will start out with saying this, if you decide to try power chord upgrades I suggest that you purchase as many as needed for your whole component setup and seriously consider vibration control for each component.(Mapleshade Audio is where I purchase from)

When I have my complete setup powered with stock PC everything sounds good.

My setup consists of an apogee symphony io, Neve 1073N, tube tech cl1b, Mackie hr 824 MKII pair, korg triton extreme.

When I have my setup powered with SAA PC the soundstage is bigger, bass is tighter and cleaner, mid range is focused and airy, high frequency range is extended and smoother, a silky texture.
As for audio cables it is the same transformation.

 

[JohnSantana]

What about the reduction in EMI ?
Does expensive cable can reduce the noise and hiss-ing as well ?

 

[proton007]

What about the reduction in EMI ?
Does expensive cable can reduce the noise and hiss-ing as well ?

I'm not sure if the power of the EMI disturbance is large enough to affect the main power signal. Usually EMI interferes with data signals because they're amplified during output.