[Vertigo-1]

Quote:

Originally posted by Hirsch If I just pick either of these headphones up and listen, I love them. If I try and listen to them after a session with the R10, their faults are glaring.

It's strange how the R10s can make you look at other dynamic headphones, no? I agree, same results here. Hearing the R10s, and then hearing some of the other top dynamic headphones within the same hour was enough to make me decide to ditch the other dynamics one by one. Unfortunately the Hirsch way of life dictates that once it comes into the house, it never goes back out.

 

[j-curve]

Quote:

timoteus: They could have continued production and eventually brought the cost down so we could all enjoy.

I agree. The CD3000 proves that even the biocellulose technology can be brought to market at around $350. I suspect that mass-produced R10's could be achieved for under $800, but could never be marketed as the R10! Think of the backlash that would create. If and when it appears it will have a new name.

Quote:

Vertigo-1: I don't think the R10s ever costed $4000 in Japan.

I don't know the price history but the Winter 2001 catalogue showed a list price of 360,000 yen. Very few products ever sell for the list price though. They start at about 90% of list for a new product and settle at about 80% after a couple of months. Unlike the electronics, headphones never get discounted here (except things like World Cup signature clip-ons after the cheering stops

).

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M Rael: There might not be anything new and better in the $700+ range for years... This might be 'the good old days.'

You could be right but I prefer to think that the reason the crazy prices will end is that companies will work out how to make great headphones at sensible prices.

Quote:

kelly: I still think Audio Technica could mass produce a headphone, skip the case and other anemnities and get the price closer to $500 and make a good amount of profit in the US.

I'm sure you're referring to a W2002 style device, but don't write off the W11 series (my favourite AT audition so far was a W11JPN). If history is any guide then December 1 should see a W11 successor born. Perhaps the W12?

 

[M Rael]

Quote:

Originally posted by j-curve I prefer to think that the reason the crazy prices will end is that companies will work out how to make great headphones at sensible prices.

I think theres entertainment value in price-is-no-object audio gear. There are always going to be brand new budget and midpriced headphones coming out; that goes without saying. I was wondering (and doubting) that we might see brand new high end headphones.. even a single one, within say a year. And I'm not talking about having a nice headphone packaged inside of a paper bag either (to save on cost.) I'm talking about a 'statement' dynamic headphone that dares to call itself the best. Not best for under $200 or best for under $300-- just the best! Even if I couldnt afford it I'd still like to see new such models introduced. My point is that I dont see that happening, and further that the headphones we ALREADY know as being top notch might remain in that position for years.

 

[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally posted by eric343 You know, Hirsch, you make me wonder what the R10 would sound like out of a META42 with stacked EL2008 buffers... One EL2008 can source a full amp of current.

Heh. Lend me one and I'll tell you

 

[zzz]

Quote:

Originally posted by eric343 zzz: Maestrobator? lol! I assume that's what you call your KGSS?

mmm... what kelly said

.

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And glad to hear that you've got a Gilmore amp done... Feel free to bring it over anytime

as soon as it's safer to use or transport I'll bring it across the border. right now it's still in vancouver.

kids, most of you should stop reading this now.

Quote:

(I'm currently in the process of doing a PCB for it... very slow going, since I'm trying to make sure it's symmetric)

leave room for small caps (22pf) to go between the collectors of 2sc3675 and bases of corresponding 2sc2705 in the third stage.

and yeah, unless you've found a really large voltage (800+v) pnp transistor that is still being made, redo the power supply with two bridges and using two 2sc3675. transformer should be no more than -300-0-300vac or you'll risk blowing your caps and as you probably know by now high-voltage electrolytics are rather expensive. and if you follow my advice on two bridges you'll have to find a transformer with two disjoint 0-300v secondaries or use two transformers (just like I do now, only I still use three). that should be about it.

one final note, DO NOT skimp on the heatsinks for the output transistors. heatsinks in this (a bad photo of a revision from the week ago, now the power supplies looks different, etc.) get too hot to touch (although the amp functions fine and yesterday I used it for more than 6 hours straight). keep that in mind.

 

[Duncan]

Quote:

Originally posted by DanG Sony's R&D for the MDR-R10 was allegedly used to produce the MDR-CD3000 and MDR-CD1700, so you could consider that as recouping their losses in that regard as well. Also consider that just because they might sell more headphones if they make more, who knows how much they profit off of each headphone sold? And who knows how many headphones they'd actually sell? Maybe one to two dozen worldwide in a year?

Now, whilst there is about a $3,600 difference in cost between the R10 and the CD1700, I would like to think that they are related... in my (main) setup the CD1700s easily beat my Etymotics, on every front... they're great... but just need great front end electronics to show themselves up.

Granted, i'm talking about a mass produced, mainstream product versus a limited edition high end unit... but maybe markls and hirsch's principles are right ~ that it all depends on what you drive your 'phones with...

Just over a year ago I sold my original pair of CD1700s because I couldn't get to like their sound (running through my CD63SE & QED MB45)... and now, I can't live without them (albeit a different pair)

I wonder how many other users would be amazed by 'subdued' 'phones if they really tried to system-match... I'd like to think thats what i've done, and now i'm reaping the dividends

 

[Hirsch]

An addendum to my post above. I've just managed to put together a nice quad of matched Syl 6SL7WGT's from disparate sources. Date is critical, and later black base seems to be better than brown base, which I had been using previously.

In any event, it's as though a layer of coloration has been removed from the EAR/R10 combo. Dynamics are full, and bass is robust and deep. I'll try and post a review after I've got more listening hours/weeks in, but I've now gone a couple of days without being aggravated by the R10's lack of bass...a new record

Nothing I've got right now comes close to the EAR/R10 combo (but I'll revisit that when I've got my Fisher 400 upgraded and running the AKG K-1000).

The EAR/R10 to me is just about as good as it gets with headphones. Finally.

 

[kelly]

It's always good to see someone get to the end of a quest and I really thing when you get to a certain level, personal priorities override the absolutes.

I had a feeling EAR/R10 would be where it's at for Hirsch but I'll make this prediction -- I predict Hirsch will continue to buy and audition several more headphone rigs anyway, each time deciding the EAR/R10 is better. We should start taking wagers. I've always wanted to be a bookie.

 

[j-curve]

Of course, I'm not looking to win any friends with this post. Perhaps I'll need a "no offence intended" disclaimer somewhere too, but...

Is it just me or does the R10 have the aesthetic appeal of a hacked-off horse hoof?

 

[kelly]

W2002 wins all the aesthetics awards in my book. We should start a new thread for this, too.

 

[TimSchirmer]

lol... for 4K i wouldn't buy R10's....

I'd get a pair of magnepans

 

[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally posted by TimSchirmer lol... for 4K i wouldn't buy R10's.... I'd get a pair of magnepans

I've got B&W's...and four cats. Planar speakers are not in the cards for me. They make fantastic scratching posts

Quote:

Originally posted kelly I had a feeling EAR/R10 would be where it's at for Hirsch but I'll make this prediction -- I predict Hirsch will continue to buy and audition several more headphone rigs anyway, each time deciding the EAR/R10 is better. We should start taking wagers. I've always wanted to be a bookie.

I predict that kelly is right, and that I will go on auditioning headphone rigs. I predict that once kelly establishes his betting pool, the person that offers me the biggest percentage will win it

kelly is right though: there is nothing that comes close to the W2002 for drop dead beauty in a headphone.

 

[eric343]

zzz: For chassis, I was planning on using one of these babies:
http://www.thlaudio.com/casebpwrE.htm

The boards I'm designing will be / are one-board-per-channel, and the transitors will be standing up. And the caps are already incorporated into the layout... I'd post the layout but my server is down; if you're interested, I can email you the .gif (screenshot) or .brd (Eagle) files though.

My caps are 750uF/450V, cost me about $15 each. (so they probably suck, but that's what bypassing is for)

And aren't those 2SC1967 transistors that you linked to exactly what you said was needed?

 

[DanG]

All the posts in this thread regarding the confrontation between markl and kelly have been moved into a new thread, including the posts that were temporarily hidden. Here is the URL for the new thread:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showth...threadid=17218

 

[RickG]

I'm enjoying some fine spun cut tobacco in me pipe at this moment. Hope everyone is ok...

Confrontations like this make me pipe smell funked...Moon pies for everyone at my place...