Wow, thanks for the good replies all!
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Originally Posted by Garbz /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Floor standers do not mean bass. Design means bass. My bookshelfs have there -3dB point at 43Hz from only a 6.5" driver, ok they were expensive but a friend's DIY set with a 8" driver were only slightly wider than mine, same height, but the bass went even deeper.
You should research a lot of speaker designs and have a listen to as many as possible before you settle on your design. Bookshelfs are much easier to integrate into a room, floor standers are stable and don't need stands, full range units sound very tight, and I have only heard one horn loaded speaker so I can't comment on them.
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Floorstanders indeed don't mean bass, but a well designed large cabinet can go deeper than a well designed smaller cabinet. I mean "can" because there are offcourse exceptions.
I will be researching speaker building and the theory behind it in the coming month. I'll start collecting parts somewhere in January and I'll most likely start building somewhere in February. Untill then I'll just be researching my options aswell as why a certain speaker sounds good.
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Originally Posted by phergus_25 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Im about to start on some 5' tall full range horns. They use some cheap"er" Fostex drivers, prob not the way you want to go since you want alot of bass, but a BIB might work for you if you find any novely in full range drivers.
check out diyaudio.com
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The fostex drivers are really popular in full range horns. Should be a cool project, keep us updated!
DIYAudio... bookmarked.
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Marshall, that Totally Tubular project is hot! I have it bookmarked and will be taking a closer look later today. Some other cool projects on that site aswell, thanks for the link.
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Originally Posted by pne /img/forum/go_quote.gif
digitalmind-I don't mean to jack your thread but you've inspired me to take on a DIY floorstander too! I'll be following this thread and hopefully building something at the same time, I have roughly the same budget as you and I'm also eager for ideas.
hopefully ooheadsoo and Wodgy chime in on this thread. They've given me some great advice and interesting projects to tackle in the past.
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showt...highlight=mb20
here was my first attempt to build a DIY speaker, I must admit it was hard work but probably one of the most rewarding things I've ever done.
edit-here is a project suggested to me awhile back. I think ooheadsoo was interested in building it? Not sure if he did but here it is
http://www.zaphaudio.com/Waveguidetmm.html
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Very nice first project that you did! A good read. Definitely a nice outcome aswell.
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Originally Posted by blaken /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I would highly recommend checking out htguide.com Their DIY section is THE place for great DIY speakers. They have a sub forum of completed projects here http://www.htguide.com/forum/forumdisplay.php4?f=39
I would recommend the Natalie P MTM design. It uses modified pre-made cabinets from partsexpress. These only come out to 308 USD for the pair so its well below your price point.
If you truly want something a bit bigger and deeper then look at the dayton mtmww thread. This speaker is a beast. Don't read the full 44 page thread it will just confuse the hell out of you. Read the summary thread here http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=22393 These will run you $600 USD in speakers/cross over parts with the rest left over for wood and stuff.
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Thanks for the links, I'll definitely have something to read tonight.
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Originally Posted by blip /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Don't mean to thread-jack either but those tube-speakers look incredible! First time I've seen DIY speakers that get that avant-garde look quite right. I want some! It seems like PVC would be very resonant though... but I've got to ponder this at further length sometime.
Anyway, back on topic oddly enough speakers are one area where it is almost harder to recommend a project for someone who has a vaguely high budget. All of the designs that come to my mind are in the sub-500 range.
As I'm sure you've already noticed there isn't any one right answer to your question. In that range most of the designs that are coming immediately to mind are various single driver horns... which you say you like but are a bit nervous with because of room issues. My advice is to head over to www.diyaudio.com 's single driver section and ask them for a design that will not be room dependent... I know that there are some which are fairly immune to such problems.
Another idea that comes to mind is a large speaker array. Some people seem to really love them... but I haven't actually heard a decently sized one myself. General practice seems to be an tower with 8-12 mid drivers and an equal number of tweeters. Usually it is supported by one or two woofers to fill in the low range. Edit: Something like this: http://www.partsexpress.com/projects...ssi/index.html but there are a wide variety of similar designs around.
How do you feel about high voltages? If you are comfortable with them, another idea would be building your own electrostatic speakers. I have a boatload of links on them if you are interested. On your budget I'm sure you could build a pair of large panels, attendant low-frequency subs, and custom high voltage amps.
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I'll definitely check out DIYAudio. I'm not much of a fan of large speaker arrays. (Though I would like to hear Grado's RS-1 speakers).
I'm fine with high voltages. However, I have enough room for floorstanders but not for really large electrostats. At a maximum I'd say they can't have a larger footprint than 50x50cm.
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Originally Posted by Wodgy /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Sorry I didn't see this thread earlier. Anyway, I would definitely encourage you to get into speaker building, especially with that kind of budget. You probably won't spend that much on your first speaker project (it's hard to spend that much on a DIY speaker project in general, except for the Orions), but you'll have a lot of leeway to buy tools and materials and finishing supplies and still come under budget, which is nice. Speaker building is very addicting and quite rewarding. The nice thing about it is that you get to choose a design with engineering tradeoffs to suit your needs, rather than a commercial speaker delivered as a black box with an unknown crossover and power response and a cheap cabinet.
Tony Gee's designs (HumbleHomemadeHifi) look good. I don't have any experience with them. The other online designer who does an equivalently professional level of analysis is John Krutke: www.zaphaudio.com It's usually easy to find reviews of his speakers, because several people have built them.
Other designers/designs to consider are Dennis Murphy (murphyblaster.com) and the Modula MT design, which also have a good number of reviews online. Both ooheadsoo and I have built Dennis Murphy's MBOW1.
While the designs on Parts Express' website, like the tubular design, look nice, with the kind of budget you're looking at, you probably want a design that has a full set of measurements and a slightly more experienced designer.
Right now I'm building John Krutke's Waveguide TMMs. Just to give some background on how I decided on that project; these are the criteria I used to choose it:
- I prefer soft dome tweeters and non-metal cone midranges
- I wanted the option of having a uniform impedance for use with tube amps
- I wanted relatively high sensitivity for use with tube amps (as well as for dynamics in general)
- I prefer speakers with a uniform power response; though I switched apartments and no longer live in a place with all glass and hardwood, my experience is that uniform power response makes a real difference in the sound of the speaker
- adequate bass response; full baffle step compensation for use with no subwoofer
- reasonable cost
- reasonable build complexity.
The reason I listed those points is not to convince you to do that specific project; it's to highlight the kinds of questions to ask yourself when choosing a DIY project that perfectly meets your needs. e.g. Will you be using a tube amp? Do you like the crisp detail of metal drivers? What is your room like? Will you be using a subwoofer? The great thing about DIY is that you can optimize all these variables, plus you can choose a look and finish that you really like. For instance, I added a semicircular bottom to the front baffle of the Waveguide TMMs, like the bottom of the baffle of the Orions, because I really like that look over the standard rectangular baffle. If you really wanted to spend the full 1000 Euro, you could go with some very exotic wood veneers.
Anyway, tell us more about what your specific desires are and we can recommend something a little more specific for you.
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Thanks for the tips, that definitely helps. I realize that I'm much too vague in what I want. I'll try to expand that below.
As for what amp, at the moment I'm thinking about a 30-50wpc solidstate possibly dual momo amp. I also want to build this myself (and possibly design it myself), and my knowledge of electronics is much larger in solid state than in tube amps.
Budget wise I don't have to spend the full €1000, though I could go that high. I'm a student so if I can get the result I want for less than that'd be great.
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Originally Posted by Wodgy /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I went back and reread your original post a little more carefully...
Good to know. Do realize that you won't get the very last octave even with large floorstanders, though if this is just for music listening as opposed to home theatre you'll be fine.
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I realize this, and these speakers will mainly be used for music. They will also be used in a home theatre, but this is much less important than music. I dislike subwoofers because I've never heard a really well implanted one, there was allways some sense of that it just wasn't sounding right. Also, I don't think I'll need a subwoofer in sense of low end volume because my room is not that big. The reason I want to go for floorstanders rather than bookshelves is that when I move out in another year or 2, I won't be stuck with speakers that can't fill a bigger room.
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Originally Posted by Wodgy /img/forum/go_quote.gif
A piano black finish involves a lot of work. For floorstanders, I would suggest not attempting this. Too much surface area. I know pne succeeded on his bookshelves, but it's worth reading his thread to see how much work it was. Multiply that by six to eight times the surface area.... But if you're ambitious or your grandfather has experience with this type of finish, it doesn't hurt to try of course.
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I'll most likely not go with a piano gloss finish. I was just using it as a pointer for more nice looking cabinets.
However, my dad is a guitar builder in his free time, and he has enough experience with finishing and piano gloss to pull this off. It'll just take very long and will definitely cause some sore arms, but it might be possible.
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Originally Posted by Wodgy /img/forum/go_quote.gif
There aren't a lot of good DIY horn designs because they usually don't measure well, and the DIY guys tend to be fairly engineering-minded. But you may consider a waveguide design. Tony Gee recently did a waveguide MTM, and John Krutke has his waveguide TMM. Waveguides combine the best of horns with the best of conventional tweeters.
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I'll definitely look at them. So much reading to do.
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Originally Posted by Wodgy /img/forum/go_quote.gif
BTW, whether the speaker is front or back ported doesn't make any difference. (I know people say it does, but it's a misconception.) If you're specifying front porting because you want to put the speaker close to a wall, what you really want is a speaker with reduced baffle step compensation. A speaker with full baffle step compensation will sound boomy close to a wall.
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Ok, I was allways under the impression that back ported speakers were harder to place since they were rear firing and setting them anywhere near walls could form troublesome. My room is a trouble as it is allready. Here's a floorplan of how I'm planning to set it up. Unfortunatly I want to be able to listen to the speakers from both a couch and my desk, so I'm stuck with having one speaker near a corner and the other not.
Would this give problems? I can imagine the left speaker sounding more boomy than the right.
This might be a better option for sheer sound quality, but then I won't be able to listen from my desk:
The stairs shown are very steep and things can be placed under them.
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Originally Posted by Wodgy /img/forum/go_quote.gif
That's fantastic.
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Yes, it is. It's great to have family that somewhat shares my hobby and is handy and willing enough to help me.
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Originally Posted by Wodgy /img/forum/go_quote.gif
You might like the crispness and detail of a well-designed metal cone speaker, though if a lot of the rock you listen to is poorly recorded, you might consider something a little more forgiving.
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I'll take crispness and detail over a forgiving sound any time. I may regret this on some of my cd's but for others it will be so much more rewarding.
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Originally Posted by Wodgy /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The Soup design would be quite difficult to build, and those drivers are very expensive. It's way beyond your budget. The Monitor looks good. Certainly the PR would give you very good bass, better than most floorstanders. Have you priced the woofers? They're quite expensive (in the US they would blow your budget), but you may be able to get them cheaper in Europe. Since you're in Europe, you may want to look at projects that use Seas drivers. They're high quality, reliable, and relatively inexpensive.
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Yes, I figured it was (way) above my budget. However it is the kind of design and the kind of work that I want to do. A design like this would not be impossible to pull off and would be very rewarding in the end. I look forward to doing this and it doesn't matter much how many weekends I'll have to spend in the shop to build it. The longer it takes and the harder it is the more fun I'll have in the end.
Alot of projects I've read about on european forums use Seas drivers. They seem easy to get and easy to work with, so I'll be taking a better look into those.
Thanks alot for the lengthy reply! It really helped and only got me more interested in building speakers.
