[Ghoostknight]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy

This is a law in chemistry and physics, meaning anything that is not in accord with this, is incorrect.

and please tell me why this is even important?? your bringing pointless stuff up
piezoelectric effect reduces electricity by creating heat, exactly in correlation with your link

what we can agree on is that its questionable if the piezoelectric effect actually plays a role since it does very little, you can barely measure the temperature difference
like i said, for me this is just one logical explanation, if we dont expect the audible difference coming from thin air

 

[joe]

Mod note: I've removed some personal attacks, guys. Let's be civil here.

 

[Ghoostknight]

Well, to start off again i really wonder if we could gather some isolated listening tests with different materials and maybe even see if there is a correlation between different kinds

what i noticed is, you guys in the aliexpress cable thread handled various minerals which all interact with electricity in some way, i dont think these materials got picked randomly

magnetite = magnetism, in theory this should produce a "EMF" (where im unsure if this is really what we want), also piezoelectric crystals need a changing em field, magnetite has a static em field which might be not beneficial? but it also could lead to other interactions
graphene = conducts electricity
shungite = conducts electricity
quartz = piezoelectric
tourmaline = piezoelectric
(did i miss some?)

would you guys for example say, graphene and shungite has some similarities in the heared differences since they act on a similar level, electrically speaking?

what i might start doing is this:
filling chinchplugs for each material one chinch plug, and solder some chinch sockets to a board where all are in parallel with one input, this would allow for easy switching and seeing what combinations might make sense (maybe even a nice commercial thought of being able to tune your system that way...)

 

[DecentLevi]

Special mention on a small milestone in my custom ground box journey - major thanks goes to the formula of @cdacosta I previously linked on the last page. So far I've got four of his custom mid-size grounding boxes around 12 lbs each which are connected to my DAC, external clock, Schiit Wyrd USB enhancer, and one to my central AC power conditioner via iFi AC iPurifier (which connects to its banana plug and usees a safe circuitry with surge protection), Along with one older pre-made box connected to my amp with bare wire on the ground input port.

Following his recipe including dual runs of high quality and definitely recommended stranded (unshielded) copper wires and two sets of boxes, one set of boxes with each mainly a mix of Brazilian black tourmaline powder, tourmaline chips and shungite, and the other two each with magnetite poweder; both do exceptionally well and have their place depending on which component and where on said component is connected. Also adding quality tungsten powder really added a nice aplomb layer of coherency and naturalness to either.

Initially the connection was just with the bare wire on the outside of spare BNC ports with an alligator clamp until determining which box sounds better where. The current milestone came last night when I went from that to my crimp-on BNC connectors purchased from eBay. Already I was getting a absolutely surreal silky smooth sound picture with uncanny realism and vibrancy, but now connecting it this way with one box to two spare BNC ports of one component using the dual wire runs, it's like my whole system has been touched by the hands of an angel! Now my system is taken to the enchanted lands that I never imagined could be possible with such a mid-fi DAC/amp that I'm still using. Bass is palpable and gets yours toes tapping, highs manage to be detailed yet not fatiguing in an incredibly taut and coherent way.

These were photos halfway through filling them up to show this simple unbroken stranded wire approach.

Admittedly these are very cheap and probably far from the best conductors, but it's low mass and I can hardly even believe how well it performs with those boxes. I tried the other bulkier variant you can see from this link, but sure enough this low mass version sounded better.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/362522531428

 

[DecentLevi]

Another milestone was adding these silicone vibration absorption feet under all four boxes; 3M Hemisphere type, I went with 1" size. Against all logic, feet under grounding boxes actually make a BIG difference. I noticed this with my premade grinding box as well. I tried both sorbothane sheets (two different duro firmness versions), and these which worked much better to me. Perhaps adding extra punch to the dynamics and affecting the sound stage for the better. Some boxes could sound bright with these at first, but once you let it settle in and add them to all other boxes, the sound can be remarkable.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B075KM5Y8W?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

 

[Ghoostknight]

to complete the list i started above:

Silicon Carbide (carborundum) = semiconductor
tungsten = conducts electrcity (tho im not 100% sure here)

silicon carbide seems worth a try in my opinion, and i probably will, tungsten im not sure about

also one property that might be worth investigating is what happens with each material in the influence of a electromagnetic field, like for example is tungsten able to "pick up" electromagnetic fields and "re-transmit" them, but i think each material that conducts electricity does it to some degree

---

also i could imagine that you guys hear a benefit in using a wooden box because a grounded aluminium box actually picks up more emi which goes through the connected dac then, maybe just cables offer less surface to pick up additional emi

probably not worth trying but a seperated grounded case (case grounded to ac ground while line level ground goes inside the box, both isolated from each other) could be the solution or atleast worth a try, since also spreaded cable ends inside the box like above could act as good antenna

next somewhat important thing is probably to keep the cable as short as possible, i think its kinda important that we try to minimize any effects of antenna like behaivor to not influence the result in a bad way

enough "theory" again, but looking forward to test things but im usually quite slow

 

[Ghoostknight]

i was just reading about grounding boxes and found these:
https://audiophilestyle.com/uploads/monthly_2017_07/antenna.png.41296060b30ddde4eb82bbc8a2789813.png
https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...-signal-grounding-measurements.476/post-11656

so this is stuff that we should definitely consider building grounding boxes

Can you guys test ferrite chokes on the cables? this could help reduce "antenna-noise", so if the effect of the grounding box reduces with a ferrite choke it might be because of the cable acting like a antenna

 

[cdacosta]

LOL Doug started a ground box page. When I have time, maybe on my days off, I will link to the pages I posted on the topic in the Aliexpress thread. And pics also.

So far it has only been a day or so since I built and installed a ground box at the cable coax that came out of the wall. It works well, to my surprise. Still settling in, but the system sounds mind blowing. Even streaming YouTube (so long as recording is decent), it is shocking. Well recorded source material sounds mind blowing. The more I dig into this and add ground boxes to each component in the chain, the more like I am there. Like it is live, not a recording. The layers and layers of detail heard all at once, with such precision, is stunning and addictive. I know I am listening to a headphone system, but I cannot remember a system I have listened to that has this level of resolution, clarity, purity of timbre and PRaT. And I have listened to more than a few $200K+ 2-channel systems. Sounds like I am exaggerating, but I am being serious. Otherwise I would never spend so much time on ground boxes.

I will try a ground box at the router cable input when I get the wire I ordered from AliExpress.

After reading literally hundreds of posts of Entreq reviews, Asian sites focused on people DIY posts, I think Entreq is likely most correct. After each additional install, focusing on a different component in the chain, I hear more and more. What this tells me is that the ground box is literally allowing more of the original recording or signal to flow through. The ground boxes are allowing for less electrical pollution to flow between components, which is lowering the noise floor. Whether it is static electricity or some form of electric noise.

In all my time in this hobby, the ground box (if done properly) has been my greatest find for performance leap. With a good build and proper install, ground boxes can transform a good system to an entirely different performance level. At least for me it has.

 

[cdacosta]

Another milestone was adding these silicone vibration absorption feet under all four boxes; 3M Hemisphere type, I went with 1" size. Against all logic, feet under grounding boxes actually make a BIG difference. I noticed this with my premade grinding box as well. I tried both sorbothane sheets (two different duro firmness versions), and these which worked much better to me. Perhaps adding extra punch to the dynamics and affecting the sound stage for the better. Some boxes could sound bright with these at first, but once you let it settle in and add them to all other boxes, the sound can be remarkable.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B075KM5Y8W?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

These are the 1” versions of the footers I recommended, purchased from Amazon correct? I have not tried the 1”, I went with .75” because of the weight of the boxes. Next time I will get the 1” and compare the two.

 

[cdacosta]

Guys, do not forget to try adding High grade graphite powder to the mix. Start with 2 table spoons to a 3.5K+ mix. Another table spoon spread into mix if after 3 days the mix needs a little more nudge/attack or spice in the upper mid to HF.

 

[Ghoostknight]

hmm i dont know guys, where to start... this grounding box acting like a antenna thing really scars me somehow

i received today my tourmaline & shungite powder + 1kg of shungite rocks

since i was curious i placed the 1kg (it sounds more than it is, around 8x 5-10cm pieces) shungite rocks around my speakers (and one above of each tweeter) and there definitely was a difference (which is alone pretty remarkable) and i really liked it at first BUT after switching back and forth i noticed that something actually gets "added" to the signal and without it, it sounds actually "cleaner", kinda more boring but cleaner, more neutral i would say

then i was thinking about the measurements showing that the grounding box cable actually picks up noise and that shungite is conducting, i was curious and measured with a multimeter the resistance of the longest rock i had, its 10cm long, resistance of 10 ohms across the whole rock! (i measured multiple times)

then i was reminded of the video i posted here earlier where someone shows that placing shungite infront of a emf sensor actually increases emf (since i guess it picks up noise and "re-distributes" it)

is this really possible? what you think guys? could the rocks actually be acting like antennas spreading EMF further than without?

 

[Ghoostknight]

not the video i meant but a even better one, tho i dont think he is realising that holding the shungite in his hand is doing the "magic", since shungite is conductive the body acts like a "sink" to ground which is why shungite works similar to regular metal shielding BUT if he doesnt touch it, it picks up noise and redistributes/reflects it since it cant flow to ground

the scary thing for me is he is even talking about copper bracelets and pendants with coils in them...
is this whole anti-emf esoteric scene actually increasing EMF with these "gadgets" ? this would be kinda nuts, but as he says in the video, if it works it works i guess

i will definitely refuse now to place shungite

tho a interesting test would be to actually ground the shungite rocks and see what happens.. probably it does nothing or acts like a regular grounded metal plate...

if i do the tourmaline + shungite chinch plugs i will definitely compare these against a tourmaline + copper powder mix
tho.. copper powder has the oxidation problem, silver powder is too costly, so shungite or graphite might be even the best choice

 

[cdacosta]

not the video i meant but a even better one, tho i dont think he is realising that holding the shungite in his hand is doing the "magic", since shungite is conductive the body acts like a "sink" to ground which is why shungite works similar to regular metal shielding BUT if he doesnt touch it, it picks up noise and redistributes/reflects it since it cant flow to ground

the scary thing for me is he is even talking about copper bracelets and pendants with coils in them...
is this whole anti-emf esoteric scene actually increasing EMF with these "gadgets" ? this would be kinda nuts, but as he says in the video, if it works it works i guess

i will definitely refuse now to place shungite

tho a interesting test would be to actually ground the shungite rocks and see what happens.. probably it does nothing or acts like a regular grounded metal plate...

if i do the tourmaline + shungite chinch plugs i will definitely compare these against a tourmaline + copper powder mix
tho.. copper powder has the oxidation problem, silver powder is too costly, so shungite or graphite might be even the best choice

I have tired placing Tourmaline, Shungite and other minerals individually on and around just about every part of my system. Both minerals degrade performance used like this. Only Magnetite used as the material for the AC cable wraps I mentioned on the Aliexpress thread, work in that application. Tourmaline when used as a main ingredient and Shungite in small quantities work well when used as ground box material. I would not over think this. There is no way I can think of for me to electrically test and prove how the properties do what, only by what I hear.

 

[Ghoostknight]

I have tired placing Tourmaline, Shungite and other minerals individually on and around just about every part of my system. Both minerals degrade performance used like this. Only Magnetite used as the material for the AC cable wraps I mentioned on the Aliexpress thread, work in that application. Tourmaline when used as a main ingredient and Shungite in small quantities work well when used as ground box material. I would not over think this. There is no way I can think of for me to electrically test and prove how the properties do what, only by what I hear.

hmm i want to be really careful with conductive materials now, magnetite is another one

since tourmaline isnt conductive at all and "still" has an effect i can just imagine that tourmaline does actually something good

if these materials just work in "open space" (or a wooden box instead of metal and grounded) then i think the chance is quite high that these materials contribute to the antenna effect, more "conductive mass" means also a higher area to pick up noise

Maybe this would be easy to measure with a EMF meter? (tho you probably have to disconnect the grounding box and then measure around it, if its grounded it acts like a sink)

 

[cdacosta]

My DIY Passive Ground Box Posts from Aliexpress Cables thread

Per Doug's request, to gather all in one place. Will list the links. Copying the entire posts and reposting here would take up too many pages. Will try and list them in the order I wrote them so the journey and finding will be in chronological order. Will break them up in different posts and list with a post number so if anyone needs to mark a spot they can refer to the post number.

I have spent more hours then I can keep track of on this ground box project. I am about 6 months into this project so far. The project has been eye opening and very enjoyable. There are many ways to reliably tweak a mid-fi to high-end audio system to improve sonic performance. My personal experience tweaking Ultra-fi (say $200K+ 2-channel system) is limited, so cannot comment on this. The different tweaks all address different aspect of the system to either adjust tonal balance or performance. The passive ground box is one of these tweaks. But I am now leaning more toward considering them an integral component of the system. I feel the importance of these ground boxes to system performance is that great.

The theory of a passive ground box seemed illogical and silly to me when I first heard about them 13+ years ago. All I can say now is that for the money I know of no better way to upgrade a decent mid-fi and up system. If a system is already well tuned, and a system sounds really good... get ready for a shocking revelation. So long as the ground box and cable is well designed, and properly implemented. My recommendation to any serious audiophile is to try a well built ground box and cable on their DAC and other up stream gear. But be ready for that smile that will be stuck on your face!

Retail units can be purchased for $70 to thousands. A good DIY unit around the 3.7kg size, including a very good cable, all connections and footers can be easily built for $60 to $90. Very few simple tools required. The DIY unit is also tunable. Concept can easily be tested on your system in advance before building your first box. I say first box because "if" you follow my build, you "will" build more. As of this post, I have 8 in a headphone system and plan to build at least another 2 to experiment with. The more components that I connect to a ground box the more refined the system gets.

Will use this thread to have a place to record other relevant findings, revelations or off shoots like AC power cable wraps. As I am re-reading the posts, some are not clear to the reader unless they read the conversations. I do suggest anyone following this DIY project read the associated conversation to the links provided to get the most out of the posts. So I will just link to the most relevant posts and add a note if I think it would help the reader.

LINKS: most relevant, starting from oldest

1) Thread Post #: 2,065 - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aliexpress-cables.963919/page-138#post-17268058
2) Thread Post #: 2,067 - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aliexpress-cables.963919/page-138#post-17268137
3) Thread Post #: 2,076 - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aliexpress-cables.963919/page-139#post-17269043
4) Thread Post #: 2,079 - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aliexpress-cables.963919/page-139#post-17269309
5) Thread Post #: 2,087 - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aliexpress-cables.963919/page-140#post-17270912
6) Thread Post #: 2,105 - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aliexpress-cables.963919/page-141#post-17272150
7) Thread Post #: 2,122 - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aliexpress-cables.963919/page-142#post-17273850
NOTE: filtering more components does improve overall system performance
8) Thread Post #: 2,125 - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aliexpress-cables.963919/page-142#post-17273888
NOTE: Floating shields used on ground cables reduce performance. Not recommended.
9) Thread Post #: 2,127 - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aliexpress-cables.963919/page-142#post-17273897
NOTE: I would not recommend using a single box to filter different ground sections in a component. Same ground section like
left and right channel output from the same box is ok. Use a different box for digital.
10) Thread Post #: 2,145 - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aliexpress-cables.963919/page-143#post-17275494
NOTE: Post # 2145 is at the bottom of the page, shows disassembled pic of the Aliexpress clone Furutech solderless RCA plugs.

More to list, there is a lot to read through...