DIY Cable Gallery!!
Aug 22, 2011 at 1:29 AM Post #7,261 of 16,305
eureka!
i discovered why cables cost so much - when they are hand made, especially braided wire,  even a simple cable takes time. even if you are quick, its a process, wires can be unruly, or whatever...  so you factor in your time, plus what you paid for parts and shipping them, plus shipping to customers with a decent shipping time, tracking etc...
nevermind what insane amounts of R&D some of these cable people put in..  custom made wires, wire treatments..
 
I mean shoot, if you're not charging at least $100 for even a dinky mini to mini, you're really shooting yourself in the foot. 
 
 
 
 
 
Aug 22, 2011 at 1:39 AM Post #7,262 of 16,305


Quote:
eureka!
i discovered why cables cost so much - when they are hand made, especially braided wire,  even a simple cable takes time. even if you are quick, its a process, wires can be unruly, or whatever...  so you factor in your time, plus what you paid for parts and shipping them, plus shipping to customers with a decent shipping time, tracking etc...
nevermind what insane amounts of R&D some of these cable people put in..  custom made wires, wire treatments..
 
I mean shoot, if you're not charging at least $100 for even a dinky mini to mini, you're really shooting yourself in the foot. 


I think im missing something...
 
 
Aug 22, 2011 at 1:46 AM Post #7,263 of 16,305
i'm saying with all that goes into makeing a hand made cable, i can see why cable companies have to charge so much.  Otherwise its just not worth it, and they wouldnt make any money. 
 
Aug 22, 2011 at 2:33 AM Post #7,264 of 16,305


Quote:
i'm saying with all that goes into makeing a hand made cable, i can see why cable companies have to charge so much.  Otherwise its just not worth it, and they wouldnt make any money. 


redface.gif

 
 
Aug 22, 2011 at 7:04 AM Post #7,265 of 16,305


Quote:
i'm saying with all that goes into makeing a hand made cable, i can see why cable companies have to charge so much.  Otherwise its just not worth it, and they wouldnt make any money. 


..ever heard of economies of scale?
 
 
Aug 22, 2011 at 1:05 PM Post #7,267 of 16,305


Quote:
Not sure I see how that applies in the context he's referring to.
 
se
 
 


Cheaper materials when you purchase in bulk, established brand name, machinery and tools which aid in your work, expertise and specialization all contribute towards lower costs. He mentioned: "I mean shoot, if you're not charging at least $100 for even a dinky mini to mini, you're really shooting yourself in the foot." which might make sense from a personal point of view if you have just started learning how to solder and experience for the first time how annoying it is to get a braid to look straight, but if you are a reputed cable company specializing in such things, with perhaps a brand name like ALO and a customer base which justifies investment in machinery and the like to facilitate production, which does happen to charge $100 for their mini to minis, the process is a lot more streamlined, allowing you lower costs in terms of man-hours and material.
 
Also, 500th post. :)
 
Aug 22, 2011 at 3:20 PM Post #7,268 of 16,305


Quote:
Cheaper materials when you purchase in bulk, established brand name, machinery and tools which aid in your work, expertise and specialization all contribute towards lower costs. He mentioned: "I mean shoot, if you're not charging at least $100 for even a dinky mini to mini, you're really shooting yourself in the foot." which might make sense from a personal point of view if you have just started learning how to solder and experience for the first time how annoying it is to get a braid to look straight, but if you are a reputed cable company specializing in such things, with perhaps a brand name like ALO and a customer base which justifies investment in machinery and the like to facilitate production, which does happen to charge $100 for their mini to minis, the process is a lot more streamlined, allowing you lower costs in terms of man-hours and material.
 
Also, 500th post. :)


Yes, but read again what he wrote:
 
I'm saying with all that goes into makeing a hand made cable, i can see why cable companies have to charge so much.
 
He's ultimately referring to the labor that goes into making a hand made cable, which is largely going to be fixed unless you figure out how to automate the process, but then it ceases being a hand made cable.
 
Sure, the first time you make such a cable it will take a bit longer than after the 100th time you've done it, but the fact remains that labor remains a substantial part of the cost.
 
se
 
 
 
Aug 22, 2011 at 4:47 PM Post #7,269 of 16,305
Well if you take a look at any of the high end boutique cable companies you will see that none of them advertise their cables are hand-made. Like Steve says, labour is a huge part in making cables by hand and thus the most expensive portion. You want to reduce overhead, get machines to braid/twist/insulate your cables and solder.
 
Aug 22, 2011 at 5:28 PM Post #7,271 of 16,305
Psuedo rant and possible math calculations are located beneath these lines, tread carefully.
 
=====================
 
I figure it might be best to put this into something with numbers. People always like numbers, they think its objective and true. Anyway, lets say that you have someone who makes cables for a living. Lets say that they have graduated from school and deserve the average salary for a graduate of 46k/year (source: http://www.simplyhired.com/a/salary/search/q-college+graduate).
 
Since they have to do the work themselves, they have to pay their own taxes, get medical coverage etc... and don't forget they must get hazzard pay since soldering isn't exactly "cancer free" as the state of california claims. So its not as simple as just stating that the person needs to charge $23/hour to get the 46k/year, they actually have to charge more. I used this calculator to determine how much an employer would have to pay to employ someone working at 46k/year with benefits. Try it out to see how much someone is actually paying to employ you. http://politicalcalculations.blogspot.com/2010/09/how-much-does-it-cost-to-employ-you.html
 
Using the calculator I got a rough estimate of $85K/year. So based on that, someone who works for $23/hour should actually get paid $42.5/hour
 
Taking an LOD as an example, someone can build one comfortably every 20 - 30 minutes, depending on the type of LOD. Will it be low profile, will it be a custom design, will it require capacitors/resistors etc... I'm not factoring cost of parts, but just labor. If you've ever built an LOD, its fairly straight forward if you use the old apple docks (big ones) but the smaller ones with caps and resistors can be a bit of a pain in the butt and often add time to you work without you even noticing. 
 
In this case, the person should charge Parts + $21.25 for the LOD to make the 46k/year mark. And if you are curious about how much of that money they get, don't forget that they get taxed 30% for those profits (labor) and also have to pay either an ebay or paypal fee, which is roughly 6% for ebay and 3% for paypal. This leaves them with $13.53 for that one LOD. If you assume they make 2 lod's per hour and include with that the time to package and ship, then the person would be making 27.06/hour, which looks pretty good, putting them in the appropriate range to make 46k/year (after paying for benefits etc...)
 
Of course there are other associated costs such as talking with customers, which can take quite a bit of time, and there are other associated costs with different projects, like if you are starting something new and require a bit of trial and error. 
 
Now, anyone who's in their 20's and really isn't looking for much more can probably be happy with a job like this, but obviously for companies like ALO, who are trying to expand, and get bigger, that kind of money just won't do. And its certainly not something that a person with a growing family or bigger ambitions can really live on. And by big ambitions, I mean retiring. 
 
As far as parts go, the bare minimum for an LOD is the dock connector, a plug, and some wire. If you buy an LOD dock from sparkfun its I believe 4.50 + shipping and from Qables, its roughly 2+ and shipping (from Europe). And the Neutrik Right Angle plugs that everyone seems to use regularly sell for 3.69. so you can make a basic LOD for about $10, and with fancy wire (silver/occ copper etc...) for anywhere from $20 - $30 and maybe $50 for a picolino. So I figure an LOD should at minimum sell for $35 and probably extend to $75 for what people would take to be fair pricing.
 
And by fair pricing, I mean paying an employee enough to get them by in their 20's without the possibility for growth, improvement, and a future. Now if you include marketing, sponsorship (eg being a sponsor at head-fi), stocking merchandise, buying raw materials, customer support, emergencies, and other risks/tasks such as administrative duties (primarily dealing with gov't type filing and paperwork). Well then, Walmart's looking pretty good right about now. 
 
Wow sorry that took a bit longer than I thought it would... so I'll put a warning at the top.
 
 
 
Aug 22, 2011 at 5:37 PM Post #7,272 of 16,305


Quote:
Psuedo rant and possible math calculations are located beneath these lines, tread carefully.
 
=====================
 
I figure it might be best to put this into something with numbers. People always like numbers, they think its objective and true. Anyway, lets say that you have someone who makes cables for a living. Lets say that they have graduated from school and deserve the average salary for a graduate of 46k/year (source: http://www.simplyhired.com/a/salary/search/q-college+graduate).
 
Since they have to do the work themselves, they have to pay their own taxes, get medical coverage etc... and don't forget they must get hazzard pay since soldering isn't exactly "cancer free" as the state of california claims. So its not as simple as just stating that the person needs to charge $23/hour to get the 46k/year, they actually have to charge more. I used this calculator to determine how much an employer would have to pay to employ someone working at 46k/year with benefits. Try it out to see how much someone is actually paying to employ you. http://politicalcalculations.blogspot.com/2010/09/how-much-does-it-cost-to-employ-you.html
 
Using the calculator I got a rough estimate of $85K/year. So based on that, someone who works for $23/hour should actually get paid $42.5/hour
 
Taking an LOD as an example, someone can build one comfortably every 20 - 30 minutes, depending on the type of LOD. Will it be low profile, will it be a custom design, will it require capacitors/resistors etc... I'm not factoring cost of parts, but just labor. If you've ever built an LOD, its fairly straight forward if you use the old apple docks (big ones) but the smaller ones with caps and resistors can be a bit of a pain in the butt and often add time to you work without you even noticing. 
 
In this case, the person should charge Parts + $21.25 for the LOD to make the 46k/year mark. And if you are curious about how much of that money they get, don't forget that they get taxed 30% for those profits (labor) and also have to pay either an ebay or paypal fee, which is roughly 6% for ebay and 3% for paypal. This leaves them with $13.53 for that one LOD. If you assume they make 2 lod's per hour and include with that the time to package and ship, then the person would be making 27.06/hour, which looks pretty good, putting them in the appropriate range to make 46k/year (after paying for benefits etc...)
 
Of course there are other associated costs such as talking with customers, which can take quite a bit of time, and there are other associated costs with different projects, like if you are starting something new and require a bit of trial and error. 
 
Now, anyone who's in their 20's and really isn't looking for much more can probably be happy with a job like this, but obviously for companies like ALO, who are trying to expand, and get bigger, that kind of money just won't do. And its certainly not something that a person with a growing family or bigger ambitions can really live on. And by big ambitions, I mean retiring. 
 
As far as parts go, the bare minimum for an LOD is the dock connector, a plug, and some wire. If you buy an LOD dock from sparkfun its I believe 4.50 + shipping and from Qables, its roughly 2+ and shipping (from Europe). And the Neutrik Right Angle plugs that everyone seems to use regularly sell for 3.69. so you can make a basic LOD for about $10, and with fancy wire (silver/occ copper etc...) for anywhere from $20 - $30 and maybe $50 for a picolino. So I figure an LOD should at minimum sell for $35 and probably extend to $75 for what people would take to be fair pricing.
 
And by fair pricing, I mean paying an employee enough to get them by in their 20's without the possibility for growth, improvement, and a future. Now if you include marketing, sponsorship (eg being a sponsor at head-fi), stocking merchandise, buying raw materials, customer support, emergencies, and other risks/tasks such as administrative duties (primarily dealing with gov't type filing and paperwork). Well then, Walmart's looking pretty good right about now. 
 
Wow sorry that took a bit longer than I thought it would... so I'll put a warning at the top.


As you said, people do like their numbers... me included!
 
 
Aug 22, 2011 at 5:50 PM Post #7,273 of 16,305
I would think keeping enough stock and raw materials on hand accounts for a lot of the costs. Don't quote me on that though, just an engineering student, don't have any business letters beside my name (yet). Haha.
 
Aug 22, 2011 at 6:18 PM Post #7,274 of 16,305


Quote:
I would think keeping enough stock and raw materials on hand accounts for a lot of the costs. Don't quote me on that though, just an engineering student, don't have any business letters beside my name (yet). Haha.


Oh they do, I think I mention that as just a quick thing at the end of my post. Honestly if you take all of the storage/handling into account it all adds up to big enough percentages that can cut someone's bottom line by a few grand/year. 
 
 

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