Discussion Of What Is "High End"

[wink]

So, it has come to this, has it?
High end audio has hit rock bottom - and I don't mean bass reproduction.

Btittany Spears - INDEED.......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[feifan]

"High end" is only indirectly related to quality. The gauge, pure and simple, is money. It's the lofty price range that's limited to the few who can occupy it. Using a normal distribution, we could say that "high-end" is one or more standard deviations above the mean, or about 15% of the head-fi population. This would mean that mid-fiers are in the +/- one SD range, or about 68% of the population. Low-fiers would then make up the group that's one or more SDs below the mean, or about 15%.
 
Thus, "high end" is relative. If your equipment is in a range that 85% of users can't afford, then it's high end -- regardless of SQ.
 
Of course, we could be even more discriminating and raise the high-end level to 2 or more SDs above the mean, but that would mean only 2% of the population would qualify, and that might leave the forum high and dry.
 
It's kinda like IQ. Everyone wants to be a genius. But unlike intelligence, high-end equipment can be bought. And that's a big difference.
 
BTW, Thermionic, great writing. One of the best I've seen in a long time.

 

[wink]

Feifan posted:-
 
Quote:

It's kinda like IQ. Everyone wants to be a genius. But unlike intelligence, high-end equipment can be bought. And that's a big difference.

Intelligence can be bought.
Every employer does it when they hire an employee.
The only caveat is that the employer needs to be careful that the appropriate person is hired for the job vacancy.
The same applies to hifi equipment, as can be attested to in the for sale forums here and on ebay.

 

[feifan]

Wink, I can't quite follow what you're saying, and I think it's because we may be talking about different kinds of "intelligence."
 
My bad. I should've omitted that paragraph on IQ (intelligence quotient). I was trying to be funny, but the result seems to be confusion. The IQ thought came about because normal curves are often associated with capacity tests.

 

[Suntory_Times]

Quote:

Feifan posted:-
 
Intelligence can be bought.
Every employer does it when they hire an employee.
The only caveat is that the employer needs to be careful that the appropriate person is hired for the job vacancy.
The same applies to hifi equipment, as can be attested to in the for sale forums here and on ebay.

 
I have bought equipement knowing I would sell it on as I new I wouldn't be able to afford what I wanted for a long period of time, I also bought many times second hand so I could try it out with the plan of selling it on (unless I loved it).  That's part of what this crazy hobby is.
 
To me high end is relative, but on a forum such as this it should be based on performance in terms of sound quality of the equipement.  Price to me is a moot point (bose anyone? [note: i'm not trying to make fun of bose, just refering to how this forum tends to feel that the osund quality for the price you pay can easily be beating]).  I also think build quality should be considered, as it doesn't matter how good a piece of equipement sounds, if it breaks down every few hours it isn't in my mind high-end as it takes you away from the most important thing, your ability to listen and enjoy your favourite music.
 

 

[SleepyOne]

 
Quote:

"High end" is only indirectly related to quality. The gauge, pure and simple, is money. It's the lofty price range that's limited to the few who can occupy it. Using a normal distribution, we could say that "high-end" is one or more standard deviations above the mean, or about 15% of the head-fi population. This would mean that mid-fiers are in the +/- one SD range, or about 68% of the population. Low-fiers would then make up the group that's one or more SDs below the mean, or about 15%.
 
Thus, "high end" is relative. If your equipment is in a range that 85% of users can't afford, then it's high end -- regardless of SQ.
 
Of course, we could be even more discriminating and raise the high-end level to 2 or more SDs above the mean, but that would mean only 2% of the population would qualify, and that might leave the forum high and dry.
 
It's kinda like IQ. Everyone wants to be a genius. But unlike intelligence, high-end equipment can be bought. And that's a big difference.
 
BTW, Thermionic, great writing. One of the best I've seen in a long time.

Haha!!

 
I am just a literal reader. High end = amount the highest quality audio devise (soundwise) currently available, which normally translates as $$$.
 
However money alone isn't necessarily means high end because you could have a gold diamond encrusted ipod that cost obscene amount of money which has nothing to do with great audio (there really is such thing! http://www.metro.co.uk/news/118468-diamond-ipod-is-worlds-most-expensive). It has quality, but for me the purpose of head-fi/ hi-fi is about sound, not just appearance. So on that ground, money per se isn't necessarily = high end.

 

[jude]

routan
 
bavarianism
 
Check this out

 

[feifan]

Suntory_Times and SleepyOne, I agree that quality definitely should factor into any definition of "high end." But let's face it, how many would could consider the rig I'm listening to right now as high end?
 
Sansui TU-717 tuner (FM stereo) > Shanling PH100 amp > GS1000
 
I use this setup to listen to the local public radio classics programs and, in the late evening, rock, jazz, blues.
 
It's not my main rig -- which is computer-based -- but it's a no hassles way to get at quality random programing.
 
And, BTW, the SQ's excellent and the tuner, with rack handles, isn't too bad on the eyes.
 
But "high end"?
 
Nah.

 

[googleli]

You will know what high-end truly means when you get there. Most people here haven't yet. They just rant about all cables and expensive sources being snake oil, and say the graphs look all the same and stuff, but most haven't even tried. It is ok to say more expensive gear doesn't necessarily sound better, but it is completely ridiculous to state that what you own is the absolute best or the highest end gear without trying any other stuff, and just because you are happy about what you have you can call it high end without comparison to any other stuff. Unfortunately, many LCD2 owners fall into the latter category, and no, I still don't think the LCD2 fits here, although being a proud owner of such a great headphone myself.

 

[Currawong]

Quote:

So, it has come to this, has it?
High end audio has hit rock bottom - and I don't mean bass reproduction.

Btittany Spears - INDEED.......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Speaking of pop music, it was quite amazing listening to Michael Jackson through high-end gear. It wasn't something I was prepared for in the least.

 

[nikp]

Looking at the thesaurus, these words came up: expensive, top quality, top notch, luxurious, costly, fashionable
 

This is why expensive products regardless of quality is considered high end. 

 

[Happy Camper]

I think we were basing this on sound quality which is why there is such a variety of views. Very subjective.

 

[nikp]

Quote:

I think we were basing this on sound quality which is why there is such a variety of views. Very subjective.

Yes it's a very subjective thing. Monster Cable and Bose targeted the consumer market while the others were after the professionals and audiophiles. The consumer market attracts big bucks! 
 

 

[Clarkmc2]

Quote:

You will know what high-end truly means when you get there. Most people here haven't yet.

Yes to the second part, but heck no to the first part. Something sounds great until you hear something better. Further, my more experienced friends who habituated the high end shows mostly noticed how the expensive, hyped stuff did not sound nearly as good as far lesser priced gear they already knew well. Exceptions were few.
 
And to hopefully still the silly chorus, cables, DACs, megabuck sources and other sideshow high end stuff will not make an amp, headphone or speaker better. If you want improvement, seek out a better sounding amp, headphone or speaker.
 
Most importantly, if you want to improve your musical enjoyment, listen to better music. That is WAY more important than what gear you hear it on. That is no more or less subjective that what high end is! It does not matter what genre of music you listen to; find musicians who do it better than what you are listining to now.

 

[Leonardo Drummond]

Quote:

Most importantly, if you want to improve your musical enjoyment, listen to better music. That is WAY more important than what gear you hear it on. That is no more or less subjective that what high end is! It does not matter what genre of music you listen to; find musicians who do it better than what you are listining to now.

You're here as well
 
But isn't that a huge contradiction? To me, the whole point of audiophilia is to seek a high fidelity reproduction in order to enhance the enjoyment of the music you like in the first place. To listen to other music just because it sounds better in technical terms sounds just like an inversion of priorities to me.