[ahdat]

Based on some reviews i found around here, I was seriously considering getting the Senn HD280, but i really wanted to check out the sound before i buy. So I went down to Fry's and picked up a V6 since they are suppose to sound similar (cant find the 280's locally anywhere). I was ready to be blown away by the V6 (since they were so highly regarded in these forums) when i first plugged them in, but was quite disappointed. Everything sounded clear and detailed and the bass went pretty deep but but it just didnt sound right. So i decided A-B it with my Denon Ah-210. The V6 sounded so dead! I always wondered (im a newbie) what 'analytical', 'closed', and 'no soundstage' sounded like, and man, i do not like it at all, no matter how detailed the sound was. The denon's sounded so much more alive and musical (even thou the sound was somewhat muffled, the mid-bass was boomy and a couple of other problems) and the V6 sounded like it was just spitting out sound. It did not seem very coherent at all. The instruments and vocals sounded individualized (and the vocals maybe a bit recessed), while the Denon's sounded musical and all the sounds fitted well together. So then I thought maybe the V6 would sound better in games... not! Same problem. The sound was compressed and the environment seemed lifeless. I guess it would be good at FPS games where u can easily pick out sounds, but i hardly ever play FPS so i would rather enjoy the sound emitted from games. How can SO MANY people like the V6? Am I missing somewhere here? I can see why they would make good studio phones (especially for the price) but I can't see why anyone would listen to music with these (although it sounded okay with techno and the like). I am about ready to write off the 280's and probably go for the 497's. U guys got any other suggestions? No grados cuz i kept reading about its weak bass (i originally wanted the 280's precisely because of its deep bass) and no HP890 cuz they're pretty expensive (i can find the 497's for about 40-50, less than half the cost!) Probably no more than 70 bucks.

 

[Zanth]

In a similar price range you may want to try the Grado SR60s or 80s which I feel blow the V6s completely out of the water. The difference though is that they are extremely open in comparison. Another option for a bit more money but not horribly over-the-top would be the Ety ER6s. They should have a finer detail than the V6s, not as much boomy bass but a true deep bass, and they are isolating so you won't disturb others nor will you hear them.

I have the SR60s and I have compared them to the V6s and to me there was no comparison....clearly the Grados smoked the V6s to my ears.

 

[RMSzero]

Quote:

No grados

Quote:

you may want to try the Grado SR60s or 80s

Tee hee!

Actually I've never heard that the Grados had weak bass, EVER, particularly the SR-80. Maybe you should get those since you don't like flat sound.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by RMSzero Actually I've never heard that the Grados had weak bass, EVER, particularly the SR-80.

If you look through the archives, you'll hear plenty of complaints about Grado bass. It's certainly impactful, and on some models fairly tight. However, especially on the lower models, it's not very deep or flat.

 

[morphsci]

What was your source? Perhaps you were hearing the quality of the source.

 

[Gluegun]

Yea, a source that is not harsh, and has not had treble EQ'ed up should help the V6's tremendously..

 

[gloco]

By mentioning the denons, i know your ears have been trained to enjoy poor quality reproduction. I'm surprised no one has asked how long have you been listening to the V6's? It takes 2-3 weeks (or 40 hrs+) of normal use to burn them in. Plus, like others have mentioned, what's your source? The denons, excuse my language, suck ****, they are horrible (at least the 210's and 350's). I honestly think your ears need to be re-trained for good quality reproduction.

 

[Eagle_Driver]

ahdat, just give your ears some time. I agree with gloco on this one.

When I bought my V6's 12 years ago, I was so used to this boomy, tinny sound. But after a few weeks listening to the V6's, everything that I had been listening to for years sounded incoherent - completely detail-less and muddy! Now, most of the full-sized headphones priced at least as much as the V6's that I own, I enjoy much more. But it was the V6's that got me started on this "audiophile" journey of mine (though it would be a decade before I seriously upgraded from the V6's).

And seriously, your ears are so used to this boomy, muddy, crappy sound. The closest headphones that I can think of that come close to the sound that you're used to (though slightly better, IMHO) are *choke, choke* the V700DJ's.

 

[Zanth]

I must have skipped the no grado part...
ah well, my recommendation still stands...I think they have great bass...sure not as great as my RS-1s...but still...great bass

 

[Snufkin]

What gloco and eagle driver said

Don't throw them away yet, just do all your listening with them for a while, get used to the way they sound, go through your cd collection and give it some time. The other big no-no is listening to the headphones, listen to the music - not the headphones or how the headphones are presenting the music, and don't do any a/b testing until you're used to the way the V6 sounds.

This is something I found when I first got my DT831 and DT250-80. Initial impressions had me wondering why anyone would like the 250-80 when the 831 was far more accurate, as soon as I stopped listening to the headphones and started listening to the music, I realised how much more I enjoyed everything through the 250-80 and shelved the 831

 

[ahdat]

well apparently my ears suck

Comparing the V6 and the Denons, I definately heard the poor qualities of the Denons, as I already mentioned (boomy mid-bass, muddy sound, less detailed, blah blah) so i dont think that my ears suck that bad. It just seems that I now understand all the weak qualities of the V6's that has been mentioned on these forums (analytical, weak sound-stage, closed sound) and apparently I really dont like those qualities. Don't get me wrong, I think that the V6 do produce good sound (detailed, none of that boom-boom-boom heard by the Denons, bass nice and deep) It just seems like the music the V6 was presenting was more to be analyzed than to be heard (I guess thats why they're sold as studio headphones).
For my sources, I admit that they arnt very good (a laptop, gameboy, and an aiwa cd player) but since that's what Im going to use my headphones for, it wont matter how good the V6's are if they dont sound as good coming from those sources.
Since there is no way for me to audition the Grado's I dont wanna gamble on a set of those without a way to return them w/o a penalty. And considering the number of reports that said the grado bass is weak and the number of reports that said the 497 has good, deep bass, I think ill trust the majority and go for the 497 (i've also read that the grados are quite uncomfortable and the denons really hurt my ears after an hour or so since it sits right on top of my ears. My ears are quite small, so hopefully the 497 will cover my entire ear. Ive also read that the grados are no good for games) I've found a couple of sites where i can get the 497 for about 50 bucks so the money factor is very enticing.
I'll probably go ahead and get the 497. The Sony's have been burned in for about 10 hrs and i'll probably continue to burn em in until the 497 comes in. Then I'll compare the two (after proper burn-in of the 497s of course) and if I end up not liking either headphones, then ill admit that my ears truly suck.
snufkin - ill take your advice and after recieving the 497s, ill listen to both the V6 and the 497 for a week or 2 (depending on how long i have before i can return them) and see if my opinion on the V6 changes. My gut feeling just tells me that i dont like the analytical, closed nature of the V6 ( reason why I want to compare them to the 497, the polar opposite of the V6 and are also well regarded on these forums) Please continue to offer any suggestions as to other headphones, ways to listen to music, and anything else a newbie should know.
On a final note, I did think that the V6 sounded pretty good with techno, electronica stuff, but not very good when it involved vocals (havent tried classical yet).

 

[Snufkin]

Maybe the Beyer 250-80 would be worth considering, they have a very... fun presentation, excellent for extended listening, good bass response and definately not cold and analytical.

They might be more than you want to spend, but they're definately very nice.

 

[slindeman]

None of the headphones you listed really are circumaural, except perhaps the Sennheiser 280s. The 497s are not. If you use comfy pads with Grados they are very comfortable because they rotate freely and can spread the pressure more evenly. Plus they have better bass with the comfy pads. Grados have been getting a bad rap lately, but in your situation, with less than $100 and portable sources -- the SR-80 with comy pads would be the only headphone I would buy. Either that or the much cheaper Koss KSC-35.

 

[RMSzero]

Quote:

If you look through the archives, you'll hear plenty of complaints about Grado bass.

Um, where? Here? I don't think that counts. However, in checking out the accuracy of your statement I did find several threads that included comments about how strong the bass was, including this thread that you participated in where the SR-80 (which I believe I was specifically speaking of) is described as having too much bass.

The headroom description of these headphones says they offer "good bass". Are they wrong?

Quote:

It's certainly impactful, and on some models fairly tight. However, especially on the lower models, it's not very deep or flat.

Is it weak, or not? That's what we were speaking of. Neither he nor I said anything about flatness or deepness. The very fact that he doesn't like the V6 possibly indicates that deep and flat bass isn't what he is interested in.

I think we probably agree -- it's not weak, but it's not good either -- is that more accurate?

 

[delenda est Sony]

Ahdat---

don't write off the 280s! As time goes on, they differentiate themselves more from the V6s by their broader soundstage and more musical nature. You might like these more than the 497s; I do!!

As for Grados, I feel bass on the 60s and 80s is tight and precisely balanced, but lacks impact and depth. Excellent bass in Grados begins with the 125s. The 280s do just as well with bass as the 125s if not better, and are cheaper, so I still think these may be the phones for Ahdat, unless $60 is as much as he wants to spend...