[BobJS]

No, the pyramid must be large and hollow.... so we can go inside and listen.  Let's take that bullion and make solid gold cables!!  No, wait.... the gold is too soft.... perhaps an alloy with snake oil?

 

[Chris J]

Quote:

I'm glad my post fostered some positive discussion, and i very much enjoyed reading all the responses.

I do agree that there are just too many variables to consider, and it would take a great deal of study of each variable to come to a conclusive consensus. Its pretty much all conjecture at this point.

However the people who have already decided that it doesn't exist have their minds closed to the possibility, i like to keep an open mind whatever my own opinion may be on the matter.
I also like to play the devil's advocate. In the end we may never have a definitive answer, but there is always faith and hope, that one day we will find out beyond doubt.

Thanks for posting that.
For me, this may the most rational thing posted in this whole thread.
Personally, I am a massive cable agnostic/sceptic.
I've read too much info proving that cables do not make a difference, OTOH, I've been "fooled" too many times by different sounding cables to make myself firmly believe that they all sound the same. 
 
P.S.   If you have any pure gold or silver cables, please send them to me for analysis!

 

[DefQon]

Some of you guys are beating around the bush and saying no cable difference is backed up and proved by "science". I've search through a few threads and forums and reviews online through Google with invalid confirms on this, except for a few zip line vs audiophile cable comparison's, someone care to link me to one that actually has frequency graphs, distortion and noise balance etc of said cables making no difference? I'm not waving for either said, but I haven't found any credible sources (besides bias reviews and forums) saying such and such.
 
Anyway I found this: http://www.coreaudiotechnology.com/blog/?p=34 which is somewhat a slight interesting read.

 

[bmiamihk]

OOO well if a person believes that amaterial in a cable will not affect the sound they will choose not to read that article and only search for the articles that will back their beliefs.
Quote:

Some of you guys are beating around the bush and saying no cable difference is backed up and proved by "science". I've search through a few threads and forums and reviews online through Google with invalid confirms on this, except for a few zip line vs audiophile cable comparison's, someone care to link me to one that actually has frequency graphs, distortion and noise balance etc of said cables making no difference? I'm not waving for either said, but I haven't found any credible sources (besides bias reviews and forums) saying such and such.
 
Anyway I found this: http://www.coreaudiotechnology.com/blog/?p=34 which is somewhat a slight interesting read.

 

[anetode]

Some of you guys are beating around the bush and saying no cable difference is backed up and proved by "science". I've search through a few threads and forums and reviews online through Google with invalid confirms on this, except for a few zip line vs audiophile cable comparison's, someone care to link me to one that actually has frequency graphs, distortion and noise balance etc of said cables making no difference? I'm not waving for either said, but I haven't found any credible sources (besides bias reviews and forums) saying such and such.

Anyway I found this: http://www.coreaudiotechnology.com/blog/?p=34 which is somewhat a slight interesting read.

You're looking in the wrong place. First, try going to a library and look up some books about this whole "science" thing. Many libraries also allow you free access to journal databases, otherwise you could purchase some articles through online databases (the AES is a good start).

 

[jcx]

few people actually say that no cable material/construction whatsoever never makes a difference with any signal, equipment
 
people who have the engineering background and experience in precision measurements will say that cables can have effects - and conventional LCR, and coupling/shielding effectiveness numbers combined with signal, source and receiver circuit details can "explain" differences - "transfer impedance" describes shielding effectiveness against EMI - in high impedance, DC measurements triboelelctric and "induced piezeo-electric" effect with high polarizing V "microphonics" are also known
 
in audio, at consumer line levels the biggest difference in SE cables like RCA/coax is the resistance and coverage factor of the shield - use better grade video cable with heavy shield and not much more can be done
 
for speaker cable LCR, skin effect can give measurable differences - but at or below most accepted psychoacoustic estimates of JND frequency response thresholds
 
https://passlabs.com/articles/speaker-cables-science-or-snake-oil

 

[liamstrain]

Here is one article with extensive measurements. The summary - with exception of one poorly designed speaker cable (whose problems were measurably bad - and does affect sound quality, causing a roll-off of the highs due to excessive inductance - a cable that wouldn't pass electronics 101) they all are dandy. 
 
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/cables/speaker-cable-face-off-1
 
e.g. cables can negatively affect sound in the audible range if they are so poorly designed as to not do their job (high resistance attenuates all frequencies, high inductance attenuates proportionally to the frequency, high/low capacitance doesn't really affect audio). A properly made cable - especially at headphone and interconnect lengths, really doesn't have an effect*.
 
*again - assuming someone didn't design a cable like a bonehead.

 

[rroseperry]

Some of you guys are beating around the bush and saying no cable difference is backed up and proved by "science". I've search through a few threads and forums and reviews online through Google with invalid confirms on this, except for a few zip line vs audiophile cable comparison's, someone care to link me to one that actually has frequency graphs, distortion and noise balance etc of said cables making no difference? I'm not waving for either said, but I haven't found any credible sources (besides bias reviews and forums) saying such and such.

Anyway I found this: http://www.coreaudiotechnology.com/blog/?p=34 which is somewhat a slight interesting read.

Postulating a cause isn't science, nor is a hypothetical equation.

just sayin'

 

[liamstrain]

Quote:

 
https://passlabs.com/articles/speaker-cables-science-or-snake-oil

 
Some good and interesting information in there, though I do not necessarily agree with his conclusions. It seems more of a "might as well for insurance, you've already spent the other money" rather than a definitive reason to do so (aside from the obvious avoiding electrical problems and series impedance - which you should do, but does not require specific or expensive cables, just paying attention). 

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

 
Anyway I found this: http://www.coreaudiotechnology.com/blog/?p=34 which is somewhat a slight interesting read.

I have measured cables, as have other members here, they do not multiply distortion to any significant degree, poorly shielded cables will pick up some noise but still at a very low level (-85db or so) , measured differences I found between cables (seven different designs) even a factor of 70x different in price were at vanishingly low magnitudes...

 

[DefQon]

Quote:

You're looking in the wrong place. First, try going to a library and look up some books about this whole "science" thing. Many libraries also allow you free access to journal databases, otherwise you could purchase some articles through online databases (the AES is a good start).

Pretty broad nor helpful, I know Libraries have books on these type of audio ethical discussions and so does Google but I was pointing out since you guys seem to know all about cables not providing any difference etc and have read a lot of sources then me, could be more specific with a single source or whatever that would prove being informative to me of what the current endless discussion is all about with reference to measurements...since measurements afterall is part of science...right?
 
Quote:

Postulating a cause isn't science, nor is a hypothetical equation.
just sayin'

 
Nor did I say it was, it was just a somewhat interesting read.
 
Quote:
 

 
https://passlabs.com/articles/speaker-cables-science-or-snake-oil

 
Interesting.

 

[DefQon]

Quote:

I have measured cables, as have other members here, they do not multiply distortion to any significant degree, poorly shielded cables will pick up some noise but still at a very low level (-85db or so) , measured differences I found between cables (seven different designs) even a factor of 70x different in price were at vanishingly low magnitudes...

 
Yeah which pretty much comes to the point where paying 5x only equates to about less then 1% (if not lower) performance increase. What I want to see is someone measure some so called high end $9k speaker cables against a zip line, coat hanger, a regular cable and some slightly higher end then generic custom cables. This arises another thing which I think is total BS is upon my discovery of so called "cryo'd power cables by Valabs" or whatever that costs about $4k and supposedly transforms the sound output throughout your amp to speakers or headphones to another level....any opinion's on this if its true or not?

 

[TrollDragon]

Some interesting reads here on Interconnects, Silver Wire, and "Power Cords"
 
http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/the-truth-about-interconnects-and-cables
 
Quote: The Article...

Beware! If there is any suggestion that the cable needs to be 'broken in' before you hear the difference, the salesperson is lying! At this point, you should immediately let them know that you know that they are lying, and leave the shop. Cable 'break-in' is a myth, and is perpetuated by those with something to hide - no-one has ever been able to show that there is any scientific justification to the claim, nor shown that the performance has changed in any way whatsoever. Cable break-in is real, and occurs between the ears of the listener - nowhere else (most certainly not in the cable).

 

[liamstrain]

Quote:

 
Yeah which pretty much comes to the point where paying 5x only equates to about less then 1% (if not lower) performance increase. What I want to see is someone measure some so called high end $9k speaker cables against a zip line, coat hanger, a regular cable and some slightly higher end then generic custom cables. This arises another thing which I think is total BS is upon my discovery of so called "cryo'd power cables by Valabs" or whatever that costs about $4k and supposedly transforms the sound output throughout your amp to speakers or headphones to another level....any opinion's on this if its true or not?

 
What are these more expensive cables meant to do (or claim to do) that their less expensive brethren did not? What makes them different and worth testing independently? Just the price? or do they claim some electrical performance difference that makes them worthy of that attention (and what makes their claims more reliable)?
 
The effects of the big 3 cable properties (resistance, capacitance, and inductance) are well known and predictable. Various metals performance in those areas is likewise known and predictable. 
 
If their claims do not significantly overturn known science in those areas, they are going to have a long row to hoe to show they are worth the bother (and dollars).

 

[bellsprout]

the facts that were presented were:
 
1. cables don't introduce distortion. this is true, as an LCR circuit can't.
 
2. cables multiply distortion. true, but it multiplies everything. it can't differentiate between what's signal and what's distortion. it simply does a frequency dependent magnitude and phase transformation.
 
so the conclusion about measuring equipment not being able to pick up distortion by not providing any is bogus. that's suggesting that if the signal is more noisy, only the noise component will be amplified by the cable, which is of course not the case, because that would require the cable to not only exhibit non-linear, but also intelligent capability.
 
Quote:

 
Anyway I found this: http://www.coreaudiotechnology.com/blog/?p=34 which is somewhat a slight interesting read.