[liamstrain]

There is harm in that such statements damage Senn's reputation unfairly (at least to newcomers to the field), and continues to perpetuate a mythology that cables are some magic sauce worth spending the money. Some smaller companies (Audeze/Hifiman) might start spending resources on "correcting" the "problem" driving up prices for no sonic benefit, rather than on actual research and development - which ends up hurting all of us, not just cable believers and undecideds. 
 
There is nothing to be gained from perpetuating mythology, unless you run a cottage (or major - ahem Monster) industry catering to it. 

 

[DNZGamer]

@Tilpo
 
That is just poor reasoning to say the least...
 
Cable believers are made believers by what they read. Most people who believe in cables are regular consumers who don't delve into the science and studies and just takes what people say because these are audio reviewers who are suppose to guide them towards there purchases. Walk into Bay and Bloor Radio and the salesmen will tell you the amazing sonic differences of superior cables which don't exist. My dad at 71 isn't gonna browse the internet to find out exactly how true that is.
 
There is a small demographic of cable believers who are hard headed enough to know of scientific findings and ignore them. There is almost no demographic of cable believers after blind testing because they just make a fool of themselves by failing those tests.
 
Now we are gonna make companies focus on elements of a headphone that don't make a difference? 

Also, the vast majority of consumers are the uneducated ones and telling them lies is harmful for the entire industry because once they've invested in cables, they will be inclined to defend them as well and so people end up wasting money on useless things which they will defend like their honour because the last thing any person who takes pride in his hobby wants to know is that he is completely ignorant and a sucker. This is probably why so many people are avidly defending cables, ignoring facts and refuse to subjugate themselves to scientific experimentation to prove its validity. 
 
Please stop discussing the issue of "let people do what they want". This has nothing to do with what anyone is talking about. The focus of this topic has been on reviewers because these people heavily influence the market. There is nothing harmless about spreading misinformation.

 

[jgray91]

If solely focusing on the real issue presented by the OP, that is should he believe any reviewers who talk about cables, IIRC Tilpo said how he handled it. For me, I just add another tablespoon worth of salt, in addition to the grain of salt needed for any review. For cable believers, cable sections interest them so much, while non-believers should just add that spoonful. Or just stop reading it and mentally note who that was. You decide it yourself if you want to read any other poetry review that reviewer ever written or will write.

 

[DNZGamer]

Which really limits my review choices... would be striking off many of the people I have made purchases based on too. The topic itself was just me trying to get a discussion going regarding the quality of reviews and possible filters to apply when attempting to extract relevant information from reviewers while ignoring the fluff.
 
Topic was overall informative though. This is my first time really reading the points of views from both sides so now I feel more informed.

 

[bmiamihk]

 

[Warpkitty]

Quote:

Of course I still go to the subjectivist side now and then. FedEx informs me that my Woo WA2 will be delivered sometime tomorrow. And I've spent the morning researching RCA to 1/4 inch adapters and cables to hook up the amp to my MOTU audio interface, when I really ought to have just gone to the local guitar shop and bought some $1.29 adapter and called it a day.

 
Which is indeed what I just did

 

[bmiamihk]

New material I will use to upgrade my earphone bud cable.
 

 

[germanium]

I would look for reviewers that have similar sonic preferances as you. Most reviewers will at some point tell you what they look for in sound. If they look for the same type of preferances as you then check out some of thier recommendations to see if they in fact egree with your preferances, If they do then they may be someone that you can at least have some trust in. Not complete trust as some reviewers preferances evolve over time. I for one know that cables in some situations can make a difference & in others not so your milage will definately vary. If a reviewer starts telling you to buy some expensive rocks to put on top of your speakers to make them sound better or some clock that majically lines up the electrons in your house wiring as making a real difference that reviewer is not to be trusted for anything.

 

[kiteki]

There is probably a scientific reason behind why certain IEM cables sound different, as a valid example the various Etymotic ER-4 cables sound extremely different due to impedance and capacitance.

 

[DNZGamer]

I actually purchased that 75ohm converter head you linked me. Free shipping but apparently is gonna take like 3 weeks to arrive ><. Will work on getting a silver cable next.

 

[Citan]

Well I stopped reading Inner Fidelity after Tyll recommended an after market cable (I think for the HD 800), he likely still has some great insight into headphones and such, but It is just way too difficult for me to take what he writes seriously after that.

 

[bmiamihk]

Some short of self censorship huh?
Quote:

Well I stopped reading Inner Fidelity after Tyll recommended an after market cable (I think for the HD 800), he likely still has some great insight into headphones and such, but It is just way too difficult for me to take what he writes seriously after that.

 

[mikeaj]

There is probably a scientific reason behind why certain IEM cables sound different, as a valid example the various Etymotic ER-4 cables sound extremely different due to impedance and capacitance.

Is there significant capacitance in that cable?


For the record, most people saying things about (standard) cables not making a difference aren't including cables with resistors in them, like the Etymotic adapter. And really, that's not so much a cable as a cable + resistor. It's not the cable construction or materials themselves or the "cable part" that's responsible for the difference. The different behavior is in accordance with theory.

Cables are passive devices. For standard cables in standard audio applications, R / L / C values are all small enough to be insignificant, there's no EMC issues, ground loops, noise, etc. In those situations (almost all home audio scenarios) there shouldn't be audible differences.

Well I stopped reading Inner Fidelity after Tyll recommended an after market cable (I think for the HD 800), he likely still has some great insight into headphones and such, but It is just way too difficult for me to take what he writes seriously after that.

I understand where you're coming from, but that's not enough to discourage me. You've got to filter everybody anyway. There are still going to be some good insights, like you say.

 

[proton007]

Quote:

Is there significant capacitance in that cable?
For the record, most people saying things about (standard) cables not making a difference aren't including cables with resistors in them, like the Etymotic adapter. And really, that's not so much a cable as a cable + resistor. It's not the cable construction or materials themselves or the "cable part" that's responsible for the difference. The different behavior is in accordance with theory.
Cables are passive devices. For standard cables in standard audio applications, R / L / C values are all small enough to be insignificant, there's no EMC issues, ground loops, noise, etc. In those situations (almost all home audio scenarios) there shouldn't be audible differences.

 
As for the capacitance, I posted a link a few pages back. The effect of cable capacitance is negligible at audible frequencies, and becomes significant (-3 dB) at >100 kHz.
Apart from that, something else might be causing these changes, as you say, maybe there is extra resistance added etc.

 

[kiteki]

Originally Posted by mikeaj /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Is there significant capacitance in that cable?

 
Sorry I meant the ER-4 cables differ with resistors and capacitors, there is an after-market cable in China which lets you switch between ER-4P/S/B on the fly.
 
 

Originally Posted by mikeaj /img/forum/go_quote.gif

For the record, most people saying things about (standard) cables not making a difference aren't including cables with resistors in them, like the Etymotic adapter. And really, that's not so much a cable as a cable + resistor. It's not the cable construction or materials themselves or the "cable part" that's responsible for the difference. The different behavior is in accordance with theory.

Cables are passive devices. For standard cables in standard audio applications, R / L / C values are all small enough to be insignificant, there's no EMC issues, ground loops, noise, etc. In those situations (almost all home audio scenarios) there shouldn't be audible differences.

 
I think the possible different behaviour of various cables can be in accordance with theory, only with these differences hidden in the cable, such as impedance, I've seen one 50 ohm silver coax cable, they're supposed to be 75 ohm I think?
 
I see your point that people are discussing the cable construction and material.  - I'm still not clear on why the 3.5mm jacks on these cables are standard, not silver (or crystal etc.) when at the same time they place importance on the headphones being recabled internally under the cups...