number1sixerfan
Headphoneus Supremus
Four pages and no HD800/HE60 comparison? I'm not too concerned with the HE90 lol. How do the baby orpheus and HD800 compare?
Detroit "Mini" Meet - Impressions
- Thread starter elrod-tom
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elrod-tom
Moderator - Prefers "stereo weirdo" to "audiophile"
OK...I've got a few minutes to discuss the most interesting rig at the meet - The RSA A10 and the Sennheiser HE90 Orpheus.
First, a disclaimer: I've not listened to a TON of electrostatic gear up till now. I've got a buddy with the Koss ESP950's, I've spent a couple of hours at a meet in my house with the Stax Omega's and their tube amp, and the Sennheiser HE60 with their HE70 amp. Other than that, it's mostly been catch as catch can from meet to meet...mostly lower tiered Stax. My impressions have always been favorable. I like the sparkle without harshness in the upper end, and (unlike many) I don't find the bass to be lacking in general. It presents differently, but it's definately there. I've always found it to be more natural and effortless than dynamic cans, though it lacks the slam that a good dynamic headphone brings to the table. I think AKG K1000 as being similar in presentation to electrostats, with a bit less in the upper and upper-mid ranges, but with more slam in the lo-mid and low ranges.
In short, I like electrostats...a lot.
This weekend, I finally had a chance to experience the legendary Sennheiser Orpheus...and in Ray Samuels' most recent creation, the A10 electrostatic amp/pre-amp. I can't say that I was anything short of impressed. The amp was paired with Ray's Meridian as a source, which I like very much. I do wish I'd had a chance to pair it with my own source, but for the mean time this will do very nicely.
The first thing that I listened to was Patricia Barber's Companion CD. I paid particular attention to track #2, the old Bill Withers tune "Use Me". This track has a bass line that will simply undo and lay wide open as fraudulent many a high-end rig, turning music into mush. The A10/HE90 handled it with an ease that was unique in my listening experience. Where most systems tremble at the force and speed of the bass, the HE90 cut through it naturally and effortlessly.
Next up, Marvin Gaye's "What's Going On" and The Cowboy Junkies' "Baby Please Don't Go", both on MOFI SACD Hybrids. Vocals were spectacular, and saxaphones and hollow body guitars resonant in a way that seemed both crisp and creamy at the same time. Sweet sound, this A10 and HE90.
I had the most fun with female vocals. Both Alison Krauss (from the Live Hybrid SACD) and Diana Krall (from various CD's) sounded tremendous and almost startlingly real. Between the vocals and banjo on "The Lucky One", the HE90 just sparkled.
Other electrostatic headphones available for listening included the "baby Orpheus" HE60, and the HEAudio Jade. I prefered the HE60 to the Jade. I found the Jade to be overly-emphasized in the upper mid and high end. Done get me wrong...it sounded decent, and maybe this would be something that tube rolling could address. However, anyone who says it's the equal of the HE90 is just plain wrong. Ray had modified the HE60, including reversing the electrostatic panels and changing the termination in some way that he said had improved the sonics. I didn't quite follow it all, but the HE60 did sound pretty good. Was it as good as the HE90? No...there was a slight edginess that I didn't detect in the HE90.
So, my preferences, in order: 1) HE90 2) HE60...a bit behind 3) HEAudio Jade...a much longer ways behind.
So...what about the HD800 vs the HE90?
I'll start out by saying that I really, really, really like the HE90. Yeah, I guess that ought to go without saying in some ways. It sounds sweet, fluid, with tons of soundstaging and fine detail. It has sufficient (which is to say not insufficient) bass response, and there's nothing mushy or floppy about it. It's as natural and realistic as anything I've heard.
That said, there are some times that I really enjoy a more forward presentation. I think about the Cowboy Junkies song "Baby Please Don't Go", and consider the pluck of the bass and hollow body guitar strings, the occasional riff accross the strings that cracks like distant gunfire, and it's hard for me to say that I didn't prefer the HD800 in this instance.
Well, I guess one could always buy both. Sure...if they come with a divorce attorney.
If pushed, I'd have to say that I prefer the HE90. But it's not by a lot...certainly not so much as I'd thought going in. I think that this speaks to my first impressions a month or so ago about the HD800 - they remind me of electrostatics, but with some of the benefits of a dynamic headphone. It is IMHO a pretty remarkable product, and worthy of what they're asking for it.
First, a disclaimer: I've not listened to a TON of electrostatic gear up till now. I've got a buddy with the Koss ESP950's, I've spent a couple of hours at a meet in my house with the Stax Omega's and their tube amp, and the Sennheiser HE60 with their HE70 amp. Other than that, it's mostly been catch as catch can from meet to meet...mostly lower tiered Stax. My impressions have always been favorable. I like the sparkle without harshness in the upper end, and (unlike many) I don't find the bass to be lacking in general. It presents differently, but it's definately there. I've always found it to be more natural and effortless than dynamic cans, though it lacks the slam that a good dynamic headphone brings to the table. I think AKG K1000 as being similar in presentation to electrostats, with a bit less in the upper and upper-mid ranges, but with more slam in the lo-mid and low ranges.
In short, I like electrostats...a lot.
This weekend, I finally had a chance to experience the legendary Sennheiser Orpheus...and in Ray Samuels' most recent creation, the A10 electrostatic amp/pre-amp. I can't say that I was anything short of impressed. The amp was paired with Ray's Meridian as a source, which I like very much. I do wish I'd had a chance to pair it with my own source, but for the mean time this will do very nicely.
The first thing that I listened to was Patricia Barber's Companion CD. I paid particular attention to track #2, the old Bill Withers tune "Use Me". This track has a bass line that will simply undo and lay wide open as fraudulent many a high-end rig, turning music into mush. The A10/HE90 handled it with an ease that was unique in my listening experience. Where most systems tremble at the force and speed of the bass, the HE90 cut through it naturally and effortlessly.
Next up, Marvin Gaye's "What's Going On" and The Cowboy Junkies' "Baby Please Don't Go", both on MOFI SACD Hybrids. Vocals were spectacular, and saxaphones and hollow body guitars resonant in a way that seemed both crisp and creamy at the same time. Sweet sound, this A10 and HE90.
I had the most fun with female vocals. Both Alison Krauss (from the Live Hybrid SACD) and Diana Krall (from various CD's) sounded tremendous and almost startlingly real. Between the vocals and banjo on "The Lucky One", the HE90 just sparkled.
Other electrostatic headphones available for listening included the "baby Orpheus" HE60, and the HEAudio Jade. I prefered the HE60 to the Jade. I found the Jade to be overly-emphasized in the upper mid and high end. Done get me wrong...it sounded decent, and maybe this would be something that tube rolling could address. However, anyone who says it's the equal of the HE90 is just plain wrong. Ray had modified the HE60, including reversing the electrostatic panels and changing the termination in some way that he said had improved the sonics. I didn't quite follow it all, but the HE60 did sound pretty good. Was it as good as the HE90? No...there was a slight edginess that I didn't detect in the HE90.
So, my preferences, in order: 1) HE90 2) HE60...a bit behind 3) HEAudio Jade...a much longer ways behind.
So...what about the HD800 vs the HE90?
I'll start out by saying that I really, really, really like the HE90. Yeah, I guess that ought to go without saying in some ways. It sounds sweet, fluid, with tons of soundstaging and fine detail. It has sufficient (which is to say not insufficient) bass response, and there's nothing mushy or floppy about it. It's as natural and realistic as anything I've heard.
That said, there are some times that I really enjoy a more forward presentation. I think about the Cowboy Junkies song "Baby Please Don't Go", and consider the pluck of the bass and hollow body guitar strings, the occasional riff accross the strings that cracks like distant gunfire, and it's hard for me to say that I didn't prefer the HD800 in this instance.
Well, I guess one could always buy both. Sure...if they come with a divorce attorney.
If pushed, I'd have to say that I prefer the HE90. But it's not by a lot...certainly not so much as I'd thought going in. I think that this speaks to my first impressions a month or so ago about the HD800 - they remind me of electrostatics, but with some of the benefits of a dynamic headphone. It is IMHO a pretty remarkable product, and worthy of what they're asking for it.
elrod-tom
Moderator - Prefers "stereo weirdo" to "audiophile"
Quote:
OK...I'll bite.
I thought the HD800 was a bit better than the HE60 on some things, and less so on others. If pushed, I'd probably take the HE60, sell it to someone, and buy the HD800.
Seriously, it was really, really close. For the money you're going to spend on it, I'd say the HD800 was the better option.
| Originally Posted by number1sixerfan /img/forum/go_quote.gif Four pages and no HD800/HE60 comparison? I'm not too concerned with the HE90 lol. How do the baby orpheus and HD800 compare? |
OK...I'll bite.
I thought the HD800 was a bit better than the HE60 on some things, and less so on others. If pushed, I'd probably take the HE60, sell it to someone, and buy the HD800.
Seriously, it was really, really close. For the money you're going to spend on it, I'd say the HD800 was the better option.
elrod-tom
Moderator - Prefers "stereo weirdo" to "audiophile"
Quote:
I own the HD600, Denon D5000, and have owned the K701 and K1000. I second this impression 100%.
If pushed, I'd say that it sounds like a more refined K1000...but even that isn't quite right. It's a different beast.
| Originally Posted by Murugesh /img/forum/go_quote.gif I own both HD 650, HD 600 and K701. HD 800 doesn't remind me of any other headphone I've listened so far. It's totally new level above the prior HD series. |
I own the HD600, Denon D5000, and have owned the K701 and K1000. I second this impression 100%.
If pushed, I'd say that it sounds like a more refined K1000...but even that isn't quite right. It's a different beast.
Nightfall
Headphoneus Supremus
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The mini meet was a tremendously enjoyable affair, helped out by a great group of people, and some incredible gear. It was wonderful to see my buddies Jude, Tom, and Ray. Ray, thank you, as always, for taking the time for you and your lovely wife to travel to Detroit to bring your wonderful equipment and allow me the chance to hang out with you again. It was also very rewarding to have the have the chance to meet some new people, in particular, the very knowledegable Stacy (Germania) who, among other things, has singlehandedly made the CD3000's truly listenable headphones with her mods, which I had never thought possible.
I had some quality time with Ray's brilliant new A10 and listened briefly to the Jades, a bit longer to the HE60, and spent quite a lot of time with the
HE90's. As far as those comparisons, I side with Elrod-Tom that the there is a large gap between the Jade and the HE60. The 60 is an exceptional unit, but the HE90 is in a class by itself. That set of cans, connected to the A10 provided some of the finest headphone sound that my ears have ever beheld. The bass also seemed a bit deeper, and more "present" than in my previous exposure to electrostatics.
I honestly need more time with the HD800's to be able to provide a meaningful commentary. I did listen to them briefly on a number of setups, but it will simply take me some more extended exposure to truly be able to define exactly how highly I would rate them. I can say this though, even at this early stage, they are very good, and clearly head and shoulders above anything Sennheiser has produced previously. And that is coming from a generally less than overwhelmed by Sennheiser Head-Fi'er, at least up until now.
Some brief listening to Ray's SR71A confirmed what I had expected, which is that this little piece of equipment is the best portable amplifier I have ever heard, and almost certainly the best available option for portable listening.
The B52 was, as always, superb, and that, along with the A10, are to my eyes, two of the most impressive, and beautiful pieces of audiophile art and design in existence. I told Ray that I may have to start robbing banks and liquor stores so that I can afford one of them.
I did also manage some time again with the Luxman P1 headphone amplifier, and continue to be impressed. I've become a confirmed tube guy in recent years, but this is clearly one of the very finest solid state options out there. Detailed, smooth, and with great definition. A pleasure to listen to.
My time there was unfortunately somewhat limited, so I couldn't quite check out everything I had intended to, but I offer the above as my attempt at a synopsis.
JC
I had some quality time with Ray's brilliant new A10 and listened briefly to the Jades, a bit longer to the HE60, and spent quite a lot of time with the
HE90's. As far as those comparisons, I side with Elrod-Tom that the there is a large gap between the Jade and the HE60. The 60 is an exceptional unit, but the HE90 is in a class by itself. That set of cans, connected to the A10 provided some of the finest headphone sound that my ears have ever beheld. The bass also seemed a bit deeper, and more "present" than in my previous exposure to electrostatics.
I honestly need more time with the HD800's to be able to provide a meaningful commentary. I did listen to them briefly on a number of setups, but it will simply take me some more extended exposure to truly be able to define exactly how highly I would rate them. I can say this though, even at this early stage, they are very good, and clearly head and shoulders above anything Sennheiser has produced previously. And that is coming from a generally less than overwhelmed by Sennheiser Head-Fi'er, at least up until now.
Some brief listening to Ray's SR71A confirmed what I had expected, which is that this little piece of equipment is the best portable amplifier I have ever heard, and almost certainly the best available option for portable listening.
The B52 was, as always, superb, and that, along with the A10, are to my eyes, two of the most impressive, and beautiful pieces of audiophile art and design in existence. I told Ray that I may have to start robbing banks and liquor stores so that I can afford one of them.
I did also manage some time again with the Luxman P1 headphone amplifier, and continue to be impressed. I've become a confirmed tube guy in recent years, but this is clearly one of the very finest solid state options out there. Detailed, smooth, and with great definition. A pleasure to listen to.
My time there was unfortunately somewhat limited, so I couldn't quite check out everything I had intended to, but I offer the above as my attempt at a synopsis.
JC
purk
Headphoneus Supremus
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How about the R10 vs. HD-800 comparison? Thanks.
-=Germania=-
Headphoneus Supremus
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^ Compared both side by side.
Keep the R10's. The HD800's... I didn't even consider them in the running against the R10.
I would say that the HD800 is a k1000 / GS1000 / DX1000 level of headphone. High end, but not a "legend" like the R10 / He90 / Original Sr-Omega / etc. It reminded me most of a GS1000 with better transient response, none of the mid-bass issues, better frequency extension, and a more speaker-like presentation (only not as big of a soundstage as the K1000).
I think the point is that if you already own a set of K1000's or GS1000's, love them, and don't really have $1400 to drop on a headphone - then keep them.
The HD800, though, wasn't picky about amplification which for many people would be a plus.
I really don't persoanally think that the K1000 is worth $1500 stock either though, so if you were thinking either one I would go with the HD800 just because it has better bass, runs off of a standard headphone amp with ease, looks far less ridiculous on your head, is lighter, and would have tons of company/3rd party support.
If someone asked me to trade my current headphones + $200 for their HD800's, I would proabably do it just because there are some improvements. If someone came to me asking for an additional $500, the answer would be 100% no and I would still be making out like a bandit.
When I have the funds to get a JADE or original Omega and make myself a nice transformer box to integrate into the Beta, I am getting back to 'stats. Listening to the electrostatics on the A10 vs. dynamics on the B52 just affirmed that even more. That is still another $2k out though.
Keep the R10's. The HD800's... I didn't even consider them in the running against the R10.
I would say that the HD800 is a k1000 / GS1000 / DX1000 level of headphone. High end, but not a "legend" like the R10 / He90 / Original Sr-Omega / etc. It reminded me most of a GS1000 with better transient response, none of the mid-bass issues, better frequency extension, and a more speaker-like presentation (only not as big of a soundstage as the K1000).
I think the point is that if you already own a set of K1000's or GS1000's, love them, and don't really have $1400 to drop on a headphone - then keep them.
The HD800, though, wasn't picky about amplification which for many people would be a plus.
I really don't persoanally think that the K1000 is worth $1500 stock either though, so if you were thinking either one I would go with the HD800 just because it has better bass, runs off of a standard headphone amp with ease, looks far less ridiculous on your head, is lighter, and would have tons of company/3rd party support.
If someone asked me to trade my current headphones + $200 for their HD800's, I would proabably do it just because there are some improvements. If someone came to me asking for an additional $500, the answer would be 100% no and I would still be making out like a bandit.
When I have the funds to get a JADE or original Omega and make myself a nice transformer box to integrate into the Beta, I am getting back to 'stats. Listening to the electrostatics on the A10 vs. dynamics on the B52 just affirmed that even more. That is still another $2k out though.
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Quote:
Germania and I differ greatly here. (I should first state that the R10 has never wowed me.)
To my ears, the HD800 is, in the dynamic headphone world, the best there is. Germania's personal headphone is a nice, modified Sony MDR-CD1000 with MDR-CD3000 drivers in it (and additional DIY tweaks). She thought it very close in performance to the HD800, and I simply couldn't fathom how. I'll call this one a huge difference in preferences and sonic tastes, which, of course, there's nothing wrong with.
So, purk, my answer to your question is this: In my opinion, the HD800 is the best dynamic headphone I've ever heard. My appreciation for it has only grown with time, which is saying something, given the already-strong first impressions it made on me. My opinion runs opposite of Germania's, in that if you gave me an R10, I'd sell it and buy at least two HD800's with the proceeds, and pocket whatever was left.
I do own the Grado GS-1000 and love it, by the way. But independent of the fact that I think the HD800 is simply in another league in comparison, they sound absolutely nothing alike to my ears. That is, one doesn't remind me of the other.
I also see things much differently with respect to the HD800 and amplification: I've now lived with this headphone for quite some time, and it's definitely picky about amplification.
Again, it's all individual preferences when it comes right down to it. As with all review-type comments, knowing which people's tastes sort of align more with yours (and which don't) is important in evaluating the value of one's comments to you. Germania's and mine obviously don't line up much at all, but, if hers is more in line with yours, then hers will be more valuable to you, and vice-versa (or somewhere in the middle).
I'm still working on my more detailed impressions, by the way, but am getting sleepy now.
| Originally Posted by purk /img/forum/go_quote.gif How about the R10 vs. HD-800 comparison? Thanks. |
Germania and I differ greatly here. (I should first state that the R10 has never wowed me.)
To my ears, the HD800 is, in the dynamic headphone world, the best there is. Germania's personal headphone is a nice, modified Sony MDR-CD1000 with MDR-CD3000 drivers in it (and additional DIY tweaks). She thought it very close in performance to the HD800, and I simply couldn't fathom how. I'll call this one a huge difference in preferences and sonic tastes, which, of course, there's nothing wrong with.
So, purk, my answer to your question is this: In my opinion, the HD800 is the best dynamic headphone I've ever heard. My appreciation for it has only grown with time, which is saying something, given the already-strong first impressions it made on me. My opinion runs opposite of Germania's, in that if you gave me an R10, I'd sell it and buy at least two HD800's with the proceeds, and pocket whatever was left.
I do own the Grado GS-1000 and love it, by the way. But independent of the fact that I think the HD800 is simply in another league in comparison, they sound absolutely nothing alike to my ears. That is, one doesn't remind me of the other.
I also see things much differently with respect to the HD800 and amplification: I've now lived with this headphone for quite some time, and it's definitely picky about amplification.
Again, it's all individual preferences when it comes right down to it. As with all review-type comments, knowing which people's tastes sort of align more with yours (and which don't) is important in evaluating the value of one's comments to you. Germania's and mine obviously don't line up much at all, but, if hers is more in line with yours, then hers will be more valuable to you, and vice-versa (or somewhere in the middle).
I'm still working on my more detailed impressions, by the way, but am getting sleepy now.
-=Germania=-
Headphoneus Supremus
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Jude, you are right about the listening preferences.
I did think that the HD800 sounded better than my CD1000, but the difference was closer than I expected and more than enough to not leave me wanting. In fact, I am perfectly content with my current home system and I have upgrades planned, but keeping the same headphone.
Also I don't know what kind of music you like to listen to, but I listen mostly to classical (full orchestra and opera), alternative, and acoustic with some jazz thrown in. That may play into things.
I think that you and I are very different in that respect. I, for one, really love the sound of the R10 and I believe that you have stated that you never really understood the love for it. It is just enveloping to me, just like I am there in the middle of the music. My personal headphone is the CD1000, which in terms of soundstage/presentation/etc. is closer to an R10. Take that into account. Personally, I enjoyed your K340's very much! Then again, I don't generally like sennheiser headphones whereas you said that you really liked yours. Owned the HD580 twice, had the HD590, and have spent significant time with the HD600 and HD650 - still don't care for them, even run in balanced.
In terms of amplification, tried the HD800 on the Luxman P-1, B52, Apache, Raptor, and Rudistor with nothing but great results. All seemed to power the HD800 pretty well, only with a different flavor added to each. If you are purchasing $1400 headphones, you wouldn't likely be running it off of a $500 amp.....or at least I would hope that you wouldn't.
Maybe I went in expecting too much from the HD800 as well as maybe a few others in attendance.
The HD800 is not a bad headphone, not at all! I did like it quite a bit, just not $1400 of liking it. To me, it just isn't the best headphone ever made (I prefer the He90 and He60 to the R10). Who knows, running balanced might change my opinion or maybe it was the music....
For $1400, I would rather put the money towards a speaker setup and buy some used maggies or sweet full ranges. Better still, season tickets for teh Opera and Symphony Orchestra. I like headphones because of their personal connection with music and value for dollar. At those top prices, the value/dollar compared to speakers and still dealing with the shortcommings of headphones is something each person will have to consider.
I would love to spend more time with the HD800 at some point and I want to have my own opinion of them change as it seems to be the best Dynamic in production that I have heard (have not tried the PS1000).
What we really need to see is a comparison of the PS1000 and HD800.
I did think that the HD800 sounded better than my CD1000, but the difference was closer than I expected and more than enough to not leave me wanting. In fact, I am perfectly content with my current home system and I have upgrades planned, but keeping the same headphone.
Also I don't know what kind of music you like to listen to, but I listen mostly to classical (full orchestra and opera), alternative, and acoustic with some jazz thrown in. That may play into things.
I think that you and I are very different in that respect. I, for one, really love the sound of the R10 and I believe that you have stated that you never really understood the love for it. It is just enveloping to me, just like I am there in the middle of the music. My personal headphone is the CD1000, which in terms of soundstage/presentation/etc. is closer to an R10. Take that into account. Personally, I enjoyed your K340's very much! Then again, I don't generally like sennheiser headphones whereas you said that you really liked yours. Owned the HD580 twice, had the HD590, and have spent significant time with the HD600 and HD650 - still don't care for them, even run in balanced.
In terms of amplification, tried the HD800 on the Luxman P-1, B52, Apache, Raptor, and Rudistor with nothing but great results. All seemed to power the HD800 pretty well, only with a different flavor added to each. If you are purchasing $1400 headphones, you wouldn't likely be running it off of a $500 amp.....or at least I would hope that you wouldn't.
Maybe I went in expecting too much from the HD800 as well as maybe a few others in attendance.
The HD800 is not a bad headphone, not at all! I did like it quite a bit, just not $1400 of liking it. To me, it just isn't the best headphone ever made (I prefer the He90 and He60 to the R10). Who knows, running balanced might change my opinion or maybe it was the music....
For $1400, I would rather put the money towards a speaker setup and buy some used maggies or sweet full ranges. Better still, season tickets for teh Opera and Symphony Orchestra. I like headphones because of their personal connection with music and value for dollar. At those top prices, the value/dollar compared to speakers and still dealing with the shortcommings of headphones is something each person will have to consider.
I would love to spend more time with the HD800 at some point and I want to have my own opinion of them change as it seems to be the best Dynamic in production that I have heard (have not tried the PS1000).
What we really need to see is a comparison of the PS1000 and HD800.
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I thought your MDR-CD1000 was maybe the best sounding MDR-CD3000 I've ever heard.
That said, I thought the differences between the two (between the HD800 and the modded MDR-CD1000) were stark.
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That wouldn't explain it, as our musical tastes are pretty similar then. Roughly estimated, I'd say I listen to jazz, classical and movie scores (about evenly split) about 75% of the time. The other 25% is alternative/pop/rock and anything else.
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I like the R10, but, yes, you're right in that I simply don't fully get it. You're definitely not alone, though, as there are many who think it's the cat's meow. I'm just not one of them. That said, I agree that your MDR-CD1000 would be closer to the R10, if I had to say it was more like the HD800 or the R10. But it didn't sound close to the R10 to me either.
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Yeah, I noticed that. holdendebeans watched as I pulled that one out of the bottom of my unused gear bin, the strap part of the headband creased under the weight of the other unused gear on top of it. The K340 is a fun headphone to play with, because it's such a bear to drive. I like the way it sounds, but don't love it. Like the first generation Martin-Logan hybrids (we're going back to the 80's here), there is a disjointedness in the K340's sound that is easily detectable to me, especially with certain kinds of music. In other words, I can hear the two different types of drivers--it's not seamless; they (the two different types of drivers) don't sound to me as one.
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Now them is fightin' words, girl.
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Well, tomorrow I'll be listening to the HD800 mostly out of the Style Audio Topaz, to see how the Topaz does with it--so I guess I would.
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That could be it. Expectations are very high for the HD800. I happen to be one of the ones who thinks it meets or exceeds what I was hoping for from it.
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I preferred the HE90, too. However, most of my comparisons to the HE90 were through an HD800 rig that was two tape outs away from the source (which I've mentioned in the impressions I'm writing). Whereas I'm not inclined to think that I'd prefer the HD800 (with any amp) to the HE90 out of the A-10, I'd have to say that, for me, the HD800 was keeping pace in so many respects that, after the Meet, I was wishing I'd done interconnect swapping directly from the source, and, thus, put them on more even ground (the A-10/HE90 was directly fed by the source). Again, I don't think that would put the HD800 right with the A-10/HE90, but it would help close more of what little gap there was for me.
By the way, I say this with some amount of confidence, as that Apache/HD800 setup is at my house now, directly hooked up to the sources, and it sounds better than at the Meet, without a doubt. Of course, this is likely helped by (a) the fact that there's a dedicated AC line for my audio gear here, and (b) I used a dual balanced power setup by BPT to separate analog and digital components.
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I have not tried the PS1000 yet either--I don't know of any opportunity I'll get prior to Can Jam '09 to do so. Given how much I love the GS-1000, the fact that I think the HD 800 clearly surpasses it, and that the PS-1000 is the new Grado flagship, yes, I definitely want to compare these two new flagships.
I think what it comes down to between you and me is what you said here:
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| Originally Posted by -=Germania=- /img/forum/go_quote.gif ....I did think that the HD800 sounded better than my CD1000, but the difference was closer than I expected and more than enough to not leave me wanting. In fact, I am perfectly content with my current home system and I have upgrades planned, but keeping the same headphone.... |
I thought your MDR-CD1000 was maybe the best sounding MDR-CD3000 I've ever heard.
That said, I thought the differences between the two (between the HD800 and the modded MDR-CD1000) were stark.
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| Originally Posted by -=Germania=- /img/forum/go_quote.gif ....Also I don't know what kind of music you like to listen to, but I listen mostly to classical (full orchestra and opera), alternative, and acoustic with some jazz thrown in. That may play into things.... |
That wouldn't explain it, as our musical tastes are pretty similar then. Roughly estimated, I'd say I listen to jazz, classical and movie scores (about evenly split) about 75% of the time. The other 25% is alternative/pop/rock and anything else.
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| Originally Posted by -=Germania=- /img/forum/go_quote.gif ....I think that you and I are very different in that respect. I, for one, really love the sound of the R10 and I believe that you have stated that you never really understood the love for it. It is just enveloping to me, just like I am there in the middle of the music. My personal headphone is the CD1000, which in terms of soundstage/presentation/etc. is closer to an R10. Take that into account.... |
I like the R10, but, yes, you're right in that I simply don't fully get it. You're definitely not alone, though, as there are many who think it's the cat's meow. I'm just not one of them. That said, I agree that your MDR-CD1000 would be closer to the R10, if I had to say it was more like the HD800 or the R10. But it didn't sound close to the R10 to me either.
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| Originally Posted by -=Germania=- /img/forum/go_quote.gif ....Personally, I enjoyed your K340's very much!... |
Yeah, I noticed that. holdendebeans watched as I pulled that one out of the bottom of my unused gear bin, the strap part of the headband creased under the weight of the other unused gear on top of it. The K340 is a fun headphone to play with, because it's such a bear to drive. I like the way it sounds, but don't love it. Like the first generation Martin-Logan hybrids (we're going back to the 80's here), there is a disjointedness in the K340's sound that is easily detectable to me, especially with certain kinds of music. In other words, I can hear the two different types of drivers--it's not seamless; they (the two different types of drivers) don't sound to me as one.
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| Originally Posted by -=Germania=- /img/forum/go_quote.gif ....have spent significant time with the HD600 and HD650 - still don't care for them, even run in balanced.... |
Now them is fightin' words, girl.
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| Originally Posted by -=Germania=- /img/forum/go_quote.gif ....In terms of amplification, tried the HD800 on the Luxman P-1, B52, Apache, Raptor, and Rudistor with nothing but great results. All seemed to power the HD800 pretty well, only with a different flavor added to each. If you are purchasing $1400 headphones, you wouldn't likely be running it off of a $500 amp.....or at least I would hope that you wouldn't.... |
Well, tomorrow I'll be listening to the HD800 mostly out of the Style Audio Topaz, to see how the Topaz does with it--so I guess I would.
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| Originally Posted by -=Germania=- /img/forum/go_quote.gif ....Maybe I went in expecting too much from the HD800 as well as maybe a few others in attendance.... |
That could be it. Expectations are very high for the HD800. I happen to be one of the ones who thinks it meets or exceeds what I was hoping for from it.
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| Originally Posted by -=Germania=- /img/forum/go_quote.gif ....To me, it just isn't the best headphone ever made (I prefer the He90 and He60 to the R10).... |
I preferred the HE90, too. However, most of my comparisons to the HE90 were through an HD800 rig that was two tape outs away from the source (which I've mentioned in the impressions I'm writing). Whereas I'm not inclined to think that I'd prefer the HD800 (with any amp) to the HE90 out of the A-10, I'd have to say that, for me, the HD800 was keeping pace in so many respects that, after the Meet, I was wishing I'd done interconnect swapping directly from the source, and, thus, put them on more even ground (the A-10/HE90 was directly fed by the source). Again, I don't think that would put the HD800 right with the A-10/HE90, but it would help close more of what little gap there was for me.
By the way, I say this with some amount of confidence, as that Apache/HD800 setup is at my house now, directly hooked up to the sources, and it sounds better than at the Meet, without a doubt. Of course, this is likely helped by (a) the fact that there's a dedicated AC line for my audio gear here, and (b) I used a dual balanced power setup by BPT to separate analog and digital components.
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| Originally Posted by -=Germania=- /img/forum/go_quote.gif ....I would love to spend more time with the HD800 at some point and I want to have my own opinion of them change as it seems to be the best Dynamic in production that I have heard (have not tried the PS1000). What we really need to see is a comparison of the PS1000 and HD800. |
I have not tried the PS1000 yet either--I don't know of any opportunity I'll get prior to Can Jam '09 to do so. Given how much I love the GS-1000, the fact that I think the HD 800 clearly surpasses it, and that the PS-1000 is the new Grado flagship, yes, I definitely want to compare these two new flagships.
I think what it comes down to between you and me is what you said here:
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| Originally Posted by -=Germania=- /img/forum/go_quote.gif Jude, you are right about the listening preferences.... |
i know it may be a bit of a longshot, but how does the R10 and HD800 compare to the Denon D5000's? i am thinking about a markl modded LA2000 and would like to have an understanding of how it would scale in comparison to both 'legendary' cans.
-=Germania=-
Headphoneus Supremus
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Thanks for the compliment.
When I got home, I fixed them up proper with Acustuf (the stuff they use in speakers). Mucho better.
The CD1000 actually was made with the same drivers as the CD3000. The main differences in terms of construction are that the CD1000 is a one piece housing instead of two and there are 4 small vent holes along the side (same housing as the CD850 and CD950). It just came with an worse cable and the same foam disc thatthey apparently put in the back of the CD850 and CD950 which were not biocellulose drivers. The stock CD1000 actually sound horrible, sound worse than stock CD3000 by quite a bit. It was a short production run and they only ever saw teh light of day in japan so
BTW: revamped the ESW9 mod to sound more like the ESW10, but without the sharpness on the treble and maintaining the extension on the bass, along with the soundstage of the original mod. I will also post some ways for user to adjust the sound to their liking. Here is to wishing I had an ESW10 to play around with too!
I get what you are talking about with the disjointedness in the K340, but the sound I heard has intrigued me enough to look into them further and the want to hear a modified pair where people have actually modified the little circuit in there.
BTW: Jude you can fix the headband situation by heading to your local target or walmart and purchasing the smallest size of hair ties and be sure to get the ones called "ouchless". Unscrew the headband and earcups. Place it over appropriately in place of the old ones. Viola. Fixed e;astics that are stringer than the AKG ones and cost you less than $3. I am sure your wife could use the rest for something.
Next you need to let us know hwo the StyleAudio does compared to the P-1, Apache, Raptor, etc. in terms of SQ.
I would hope that people who are looking to buy HD800's would have a really proper system for them though because anything less would seem a waste and proabably better suited to cheaper and more readily available headphones.
Time for sleep.
When I got home, I fixed them up proper with Acustuf (the stuff they use in speakers). Mucho better.
The CD1000 actually was made with the same drivers as the CD3000. The main differences in terms of construction are that the CD1000 is a one piece housing instead of two and there are 4 small vent holes along the side (same housing as the CD850 and CD950). It just came with an worse cable and the same foam disc thatthey apparently put in the back of the CD850 and CD950 which were not biocellulose drivers. The stock CD1000 actually sound horrible, sound worse than stock CD3000 by quite a bit. It was a short production run and they only ever saw teh light of day in japan so
BTW: revamped the ESW9 mod to sound more like the ESW10, but without the sharpness on the treble and maintaining the extension on the bass, along with the soundstage of the original mod. I will also post some ways for user to adjust the sound to their liking. Here is to wishing I had an ESW10 to play around with too!
I get what you are talking about with the disjointedness in the K340, but the sound I heard has intrigued me enough to look into them further and the want to hear a modified pair where people have actually modified the little circuit in there.
BTW: Jude you can fix the headband situation by heading to your local target or walmart and purchasing the smallest size of hair ties and be sure to get the ones called "ouchless". Unscrew the headband and earcups. Place it over appropriately in place of the old ones. Viola. Fixed e;astics that are stringer than the AKG ones and cost you less than $3. I am sure your wife could use the rest for something.
Next you need to let us know hwo the StyleAudio does compared to the P-1, Apache, Raptor, etc. in terms of SQ.
I would hope that people who are looking to buy HD800's would have a really proper system for them though because anything less would seem a waste and proabably better suited to cheaper and more readily available headphones.
Time for sleep.
elrod-tom
Moderator - Prefers "stereo weirdo" to "audiophile"
Quote:
I'm one of those guys who, though I don't dislike the R10, have never quite understood all the rage about it. I don't want to make any crazy generalization here, but I know a couple of folks who think it's one of the best headphones they've ever heard who listen at volume levels a lot higher than me (I tend to listen at pretty low volume), and I wonder if that's got something to do with it.
I listened to both cans in both the B-52 and Apache, though the R10's were balanced and the HD800's single ended. I'd take the single-ended HD800's all day long. The bass response in the R10's is just too floppy to me.
| Originally Posted by purk /img/forum/go_quote.gif How about the R10 vs. HD-800 comparison? Thanks. |
I'm one of those guys who, though I don't dislike the R10, have never quite understood all the rage about it. I don't want to make any crazy generalization here, but I know a couple of folks who think it's one of the best headphones they've ever heard who listen at volume levels a lot higher than me (I tend to listen at pretty low volume), and I wonder if that's got something to do with it.
I listened to both cans in both the B-52 and Apache, though the R10's were balanced and the HD800's single ended. I'd take the single-ended HD800's all day long. The bass response in the R10's is just too floppy to me.
elrod-tom
Moderator - Prefers "stereo weirdo" to "audiophile"
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I'll take a poke at this in more detail at some point, but I'll try to sum it up.
I have markl modded D5000's in balanced configuration, and I like them a lot. I have a clear preference for them vs the R10.
That said, I really like the HD800. It's a whole new animal. I want to hear them balanced first, but unless that changes my opinion in a negative way (like it did with the K701), I'm certain that I'll be getting a pair of my own.
| Originally Posted by smallcaps /img/forum/go_quote.gif i know it may be a bit of a longshot, but how does the R10 and HD800 compare to the Denon D5000's? i am thinking about a markl modded LA2000 and would like to have an understanding of how it would scale in comparison to both 'legendary' cans. |
I'll take a poke at this in more detail at some point, but I'll try to sum it up.
I have markl modded D5000's in balanced configuration, and I like them a lot. I have a clear preference for them vs the R10.
That said, I really like the HD800. It's a whole new animal. I want to hear them balanced first, but unless that changes my opinion in a negative way (like it did with the K701), I'm certain that I'll be getting a pair of my own.
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I've been wondering about this too. When I tried R10s, I wasn't listening at loud volumes and I wasn't amazed by them. At the time I put it down to the amp. I've also noticed, within the limitations of the gear I've used, either headphones or amps changing their behaviour at different volumes. It's subtle, but would go a long way to explaining some disagreements over headphones.
| Originally Posted by elrod-tom /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm one of those guys who, though I don't dislike the R10, have never quite understood all the rage about it. I don't want to make any crazy generalization here, but I know a couple of folks who think it's one of the best headphones they've ever heard who listen at volume levels a lot higher than me (I tend to listen at pretty low volume), and I wonder if that's got something to do with it. |
I've been wondering about this too. When I tried R10s, I wasn't listening at loud volumes and I wasn't amazed by them. At the time I put it down to the amp. I've also noticed, within the limitations of the gear I've used, either headphones or amps changing their behaviour at different volumes. It's subtle, but would go a long way to explaining some disagreements over headphones.
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