Detroit "Mini" Meet - Impressions
Apr 19, 2009 at 8:11 PM Post #16 of 172
I've had "whites off earth" since it was originally released. always been a favorite. I'll have to take a look at the mofi release, as I'm sure the fidelity would be greatly increased. (look, I'm a poet)
 
Apr 19, 2009 at 10:16 PM Post #17 of 172
Once again I would like to say thanks to Jude, "our gracious host"! It was finally nice putting the names with the faces: holdendebeans, Ray, Murugesh, Thread, elrod-Tom, Germania, There was a ton of great gear to sample, not bad for a first "head-fi" meet!
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Here's a quick synopsis of what I had a chance to listen to:

Balanced config:

R10,HD600,B-52,Apache

The R10s were extremely comfortable, the self-adjusting headband was a nice touch also. It's evident that a lot of throught and attention to detail went into the making of the phones. The sound was very lush, and pretty spacious for a closed can, which I found surprising. It has a very seductive sound that would easily allow me to get lost in the music. Let's just say, I don't think it will be unseated as the "king" of headphones, just yet!
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The balanced HD600s also kind of surprised me. The bass took on more "presence" with this setup (Apache amp). As a matter of fact, I think I was listening to elrod-tom's Cowboy Junkies CD, if I had a drink in my hand and a tinge of smoke in the room, I would have been transported to another place and time. There was "meatiness" (word?) to the sound! I really enjoyed it.

I also had the pleasure of listening to the HE60 and HE90 on Ray's new electrostatic amp the A10 Thunderbolt. Good lord! The HE90 are in a class by themselves! Amazing clarity!! Instrument positioning was very good. When switching between the HE60 and HE90, it seemed as though the HE60 shared similar traits, but in comparison,the HE60 was not AS crystal clear, rather like looking through the same glass, but with an added layer of dirt.

I also had a chance to sample some of Ray's portables, the P-51 Mustang and SR71A. I used my iPhone, Germania's LOD (very impressive!) and my
ES3x's. With the SR71A, the bass tightened up A LOT and I was able to pick out more details. With the P-51, I noticed slightly different results. The bass seemed to become more "boomier" (?) I ran through 3 different tracks and noticed the same on each. Just to be sure, I removd the amp\lod and plugged the ES3x directly into the headphone out and the bass seemed to tighten back up. So, for me, it seems the SR71A had a better synergy. I'm not too crazy about lugging around portable amps, since I like to travel as light as possible. But, I might have to put the SR71A on my list. It's a extremely good amp!!

Finally, I was able to sample the HD800!! First off let me just say that I do think the HD800 are good dynamic headphones. What struck me immediately was the openeness. After spending 10 minutes A\Bing the HD800 and HD600 (single ended), I noticed that Jackie McLean's alto sax sounded like an alto sax on the HD800. The HD800 was more accurate with the tonality of instruments. Also, instrument separation was a lot better. It was easier to pick out the double bass playing on the Art Blakey track. For me, it seemed like this headphone was able to do a lot of things right. Bass extension was very good also, as was demonstrated with the Patricia Barber CD. I sampled the HD800s on a number of different setups: dac1\dark voice, Wadia\Luxman P1, Saturn\HR2. I may be the odd one out here, but I didn't like the way the headphones felt on my head, maybe I'm too much of a masochist and enjoy 'clamping force' (??).

With that being said, I decided to cancel my preorder. Not because the HD800s are BAD, but because after the brief listening session, I decided (in my humble opinion), that they aren't worth 1399.99 (plus the months of waiting). Now it's not because I can't afford them, I already paid Todd. Hell, my wife is trying to talk me into keeping the preorder, but I think she has an ulterior motive! If I keep the preorder then that gives her total freedom to buy more shoes and purses and junk. I digress... For the gains brought on by the HD800, I don't think it's worth 5x the price of K702, or 1.5x that of GS1000is..... etc.. Maybe when R&D finally breaks even,or the cost of materials drops and the price finally drops too, I may give it a second look. Sennheiser is difinitely heading in the right direction and I suspect this technology will be trickled down in some fashion.

Piotr Ryka: IMHO, soundwise I prefer the HE90 over the HD800, now whether I would spend 10x the cost of the HD800... hmmmmmm
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Apr 19, 2009 at 10:36 PM Post #18 of 172
Jude, might your long awaited magnum opus be close to final edit?

There also seem to be several participants who have yet to weigh in - MOT, or not.

Oh, and to date, are all hd800 observations SE?
 
Apr 19, 2009 at 10:55 PM Post #19 of 172
Morph201

So Orpheus is more seductive, detailed, clear, tonal accurate and with better soundstage than HD 800?
And one more question. Did you ever heard Stax “The Space-Sound-CD Dummy-Head-Recording”?
 
Apr 20, 2009 at 12:02 AM Post #20 of 172
Very nice gear! What a "mini" meet!

Thanks for the impressions and for the Cowboy Junkies' SACD suggestion, I have one shipping to me tomorrow.
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Apr 20, 2009 at 2:00 AM Post #21 of 172
As always, it was great to see so many familiar faces and meeting so many new ones.

Thank you to the Detriot guys for really making a great day.
Also, thanks to Ray and Grace Samuels for allowing me to tride with them there and back. Lots of stories, talking "shop" with Ray, and purses/shoes/clothes with Grace. If you ever head over to Jude's, stay away from the Day's Inn. Never have I ever slept in such a fithy place in all my life. It was pretty late and the only two rooms they had availble were "suites". There was hair in my sink and in the shower, not to mention the stains on the sheets. I slept in a sweat shirt, pants, and socks on top of the covers. No Joke.

It was fun being over at Ray's place for a few hours before we left, talking in the workshop and going over the amp and PSU boards for the A-10 and a few others.

Unfortunately, I couldn't get my own gear to operate correctly and thought that my DAC was completely broken after trying the coax and optical inputs.
As a sub, there was the Lavry DA11, but it was having the same problems as my DAC, only to a much lesser degree. When I got home, I hooked every back up and there were no problems whatsoever. I am chalking that up to being at thhe end of a daisy chain of power extension cables. From the list of gear, you can probably assert that there wasn't enough current left by the time my gear was hooked up for anything to run correctly. Then again, I didn't really bring all that much in terms of "at home" equipment.

See guys, bluetooth can sound exceptional. It was funny to see some you guys walking around the building to see how far you could go. Grace spent a while with it hooked up to her music phone. Unfortunately, the proof of concept device can only handle music encoded at up to 560ish kbps before there starts to be compression. That is fine for if you are using an iPod for most people though. It is also using an integrated DAC with voltage output that is just using a combo of Muse, Cerafine, and Vishay output caps. Right now, I have it running on two rechargable Li-Ion batteries (charging circuit integrated and uses a microUSB) totaling ~1500mAH and the receiver gets a battery life of ~15-17hours. They are old used cellphone batteries, so I don't know how well it would perform with nice new batteries. I had teh reciever strapped to the P-51 since the DAC output is not really strong enough to drive headphones and the output impedance is right around 10 ohms. So, it has a low hiss with IEM's.

The ones I brought are simply "proof of concept" and were built from broken bits and pieces of things I had in my room. I really wish I had enough buttons to actually be able to use the remote feature since it does work on the bluetooth chip. Ahh well.

The one I am doing the work on will handle uncompressed CD audio and interact with all I/O types for DAC chips, even USB. Chip choice is done, as is the controller, but it is still in the design phase. Depending on production costs, the basic module will be open for DIYers to use in their projects.
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Best part, I haven't missed a phone call while walking in over 2 and a half weeks!

Still need to wait for OS3.0 though.....

Big thanks to Grace for sacrificing a pillow for the sake of sound. I think I created by far the most mess with my tissues, poly stuffing, scissors, and tape. I also learned never to travel without an emory board. Literally changed the tonal balance 3 or 4 times of the CD1000 at the meet. I undid some mods right before leaving to try and get some more detail, but ended up making it spikey. When I got home, I redid the mods with the proper materials. Just Jammin now. I think Jeff was converted to being an CD3000 fan, as long as it has been given some TLC.

The A-10 with the He90 did actually sound a bit different from how I remember back in November, bit more balanced top to bottom. I know he did do revisions, but that was months ago so take it for what its worth and memory can be decieving. The amp and the He90 sound fabulous together, as it also did with the HeAudio Jade's. Personally, I still think that if you haven't heard an Orpheus, that you could live with the JADE forever. IMO, the JADE sounds much more balanced than the new Stax company SR-007.

With regards to the HD800, it was indeed a very nice headphone. Still, it wasn't much more detailed than my personal headphones. it did have better balanced and could extend farther in each direction. The sense of space reminded me of my SR-lamda's, only not quite as wide or as large. It handled everything very well and was a very comfy headphone.

The big question....is it worth the $1400? I say no.
I would much rather purchase the JADE at the same price. Considering that the amplification that you would likely use for the HD800 in terms of price...the performance of the electrostatic would simply be better in my own opinion. Here is to hoping that it really sees a huge improvement with balanced operation. Only when they start shipping will we be able to tell. The HD800, I think, saw time on most every amp there. Nothing really floored me about it. It isn't an R10 killer and I can say that after comparing both on the same amp with the R10 using a Balanced to SE adapter. Good news is the that the HD800 is a Sennheiser that I could live with! The Veil is gone along with the muddiness, etc. For the price difference and the slight performance difference, I am sticking with my Sony's.

My favorite setup that I might have a chance of actually owning in the future was the Luxman with the K340. Beautiful all the way around. The Luxman, to my ears, sounded like a slightly sweeter B22. It just "sings" a little more.

I ended up spending quite a bit of time with the Rudistor/Stello Setup. I really liked the Stello. Frequently found myself checking this setup as a reference since its' price tag as a setup was probaby right in the range of what many of the more serious headphone listeners would have. Plus, it had nice, noiseless operation with every headphone.
Sorry buddy, still not an Edition 9 fan. It clamps, has a small soundstage, and the bottom bass is a bit too present for my taste. The latter two just don't fit with my personal listening taste.

I was also using the B52/Meridian as a reference since it is the one setup I have heard consistantly for the past year and a half. Still affimed itself as one of my favorite setups.

While the Modded D5000's sound much better to my ears than the stock. It still isn't my flavor as it has some of that Audio Technica "driverness" where it does still sound like you are listening to headphone drivers. It is to be expected though.

I really liked the ESW10's. My Modded ESW9's had more low end extension, soundstage, and really the detail was the same to my ears. What the ESW10's had was balance and crispness on the high hat that I really wanted out of the ESW9's. Time to revamp the mod and try to make it sound more like a ESW10. Considering the difference between the two in terms of price...

If you already have a nicely recabled set and you did the mod I posted a while ago....best to keep the ESW9's. I will post if I can improve the balance of the ESW9's. If you listen to a lot of Jazz, Metal, Pop, etc. stick to the mod I already have posted.

The StyleAudio little Amp/DAC's were great little pieces for the money. I would see them being perfect in an office or desk environment where discrete is good. The price to performance is more than fair, it is indeed very good! Powered hungry headphones pretty well, even the K340 didn't seem really hindered. No, it wasn't the best piece of equipment there. They were probabaly near the very bottom at this mini meet. Solid, sound good and small? Totally ready for a college dorm room.

I hope to see all of you again. You couldn't ask for a more pleasant crowd.

Cheers!
 
Apr 20, 2009 at 2:01 AM Post #22 of 172
Quote:

Originally Posted by Morph201 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
With that being said, I decided to cancel my preorder. Not because the HD800s are BAD, but because after the brief listening session, I decided (in my humble opinion), that they aren't worth 1399.99 (plus the months of waiting). Now it's not because I can't afford them, I already paid Todd. Hell, my wife is trying to talk me into keeping the preorder, but I think she has an ulterior motive! If I keep the preorder then that gives her total freedom to buy more shoes and purses and junk. I digress... For the gains brought on by the HD800, I don't think it's worth 5x the price of K702, or 1.5x that of GS1000is..... etc.. Maybe when R&D finally breaks even,or the cost of materials drops and the price finally drops too, I may give it a second look. Sennheiser is difinitely heading in the right direction and I suspect this technology will be trickled down in some fashion.

Piotr Ryka: IMHO, soundwise I prefer the HE90 over the HD800, now whether I would spend 10x the cost of the HD800... hmmmmmm
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First of all, thanks for the impressions. They are useful to so many people who may never get the chance to get near this level of gear. But did you think the HD800 would ever be 5x the quality of the 702 or 1.5x the price of the GS1K? I think every Head-Fier assumed that these cans would not produce performance commensurate with the price (for now). The law of diminishing returns will certainly see to that. I'm not being critical. I'm just wondering if your expectations were too high to begin with. Just a thought.

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.
 
Apr 20, 2009 at 2:35 AM Post #23 of 172
Quote:

Originally Posted by illkemist /img/forum/go_quote.gif
First of all, thanks for the impressions. They are useful to so many people who may never get the chance to get near this level of gear. But did you think the HD800 would ever be 5x the quality of the 702 or 1.5x the price of the GS1K? I think every Head-Fier assumed that these cans would not produce performance commensurate with the price (for now). The law of diminishing returns will certainly see to that. I'm not being critical. I'm just wondering if your expectations were too high to begin with. Just a thought.

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.



I agree 100%. I was in the middle of multi-tasking when I typed that, let me rephrase what I said earlier. The improvement I noticed (or didn't notice) doesnt warrant me spending 5x more. To some people that may be okay, especially if you want to be an early adopter, I'm going to wait it out. Auditioning the gear has allowed me to gain some 'patience', thank god! The 'wait' was beginning to kill me!!!
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Apr 20, 2009 at 2:42 AM Post #24 of 172
Quote:

Originally Posted by -=Germania=- /img/forum/go_quote.gif
As always, it was great to see so many familiar faces and meeting so many new ones.

If you ever head over to Jude's, stay away from the Day's Inn. Never have I ever slept in such a fithy place in all my life. It was pretty late and the only two rooms they had availble were "suites". There was hair in my sink and in the shower, not to mention the stains on the sheets. I slept in a sweat shirt, pants, and socks on top of the covers. No Joke.


Cheers!



Not to make you paranoid, but I just saw a special about a 'bed bug infestation'...
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You may have to burn your clothes!!!!!!
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Apr 20, 2009 at 3:55 AM Post #25 of 172
Quote:

Originally Posted by -=Germania=- /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The StyleAudio little Amp/DAC's were great little pieces for the money. I would see them being perfect in an office or desk environment where discrete is good. The price to performance is more than fair, it is indeed very good! Powered hungry headphones pretty well, even the K340 didn't seem really hindered. Not, it wasn't the best poiece of equipment there. They were probabaly near the very bottom at this mini meet. Solid, sound good and small? Totally ready for a college dorm room.


Cool, thanks for the impressions.

I would hope it wasn't the best thing there with some of the high end pieces that were there! If it was better than the Luxman (which is one of my favorite headphone amps ever), I would worry, ha!

Peace,

Lee
 
Apr 20, 2009 at 5:14 AM Post #26 of 172
You are welcome.

Though, I would really like to see a nicer PSU be offered as a potential upgrade. Considering that they were putting out a bit more than two amps @ 5V and are switching, I cannot help but wonder how much better it would sound with a nicer PSU. Maybe something like this MeanWell? http://www.trcelectronics.com/Meanwell/pdf/pm10.pdf The tolerance looks really good and the price is pretty cheap.
 
Apr 20, 2009 at 5:38 AM Post #27 of 172
Quote:

Originally Posted by Morph201 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I agree 100%. I was in the middle of multi-tasking when I typed that, let me rephrase what I said earlier. The improvement I noticed (or didn't notice) doesnt warrant me spending 5x more. To some people that may be okay, especially if you want to be an early adopter, I'm going to wait it out. Auditioning the gear has allowed me to gain some 'patience', thank god! The 'wait' was beginning to kill me!!!
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You know you still can't argue with your wife about buying new shoes, since you already had made the preorder. Sorry man. Thanks for the preview
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Apr 20, 2009 at 10:13 AM Post #30 of 172
Anyone listened to the new HD380?
 

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