[Hanesu]

Sure, but perhaps all that means is you chose the wrong DAC/Amp not that the device is generally poor. For a starter buying a small portable device with essentially balanced design to drive full size headphones from its less powerful single ended output makes no sense to me.

Buy yourself an iFi Diablo, you won’t be short of volume.

I can generally understand both sides, but totally get Sulbh`s point. There is no way around that the SG1 is unusually weak in terms of power output for what it is! It`s a bluetooth DAC-Amp. It`s purpose is to wirelessly connect different sorts of portable gear to a smartphone and drive it properly. It`s a fact that it cannot drive even some earphones properly that almost any other product in the same category can drive (I have owned many different BT dac amps and none of it had problems to drive my Szalayi). That is why I was surprised, too, that it could not. If one orders such product, one would not expect that.
Driving power is a weakness of the SG1 (and the gold version, that came out later, obviously is a reaction to that).
As I have written before, in my opinion the SG1 is a niche product for analogish sound lovers that can live with it`s weaknesses, that it clearly has. That is everything one has to know.

 

[RIGATIO]

I still cant understand why @Sulbh has bought the regular version of the sg1 instead of getting a used dap with a proper 4V balanced output when he had the AK pa10...
Hes had everything he needed but went a different path and complicated his case even more.

 

[Sulbh]

I still cant understand why @Sulbh has bought the regular version of the sg1 instead of getting a used dap with a proper 4V balanced output when he had the AK pa10...
Hes had everything he needed but went a different path and complicated his case even more.

That's not how it works. Each device should be judged on its own. I happen to have other products does not mean that weakness of SG1 is justified. Many others might not have multiple devices. And some headphones do not have balanced option like DT 770 Pro and some other IEMs. You cannot make a weak product which is weaker than every other product in its price range and even below it and then come up with excuse like hey it was meant to be weak now go buy our other product which is $200 more expensive than this one. That's called upselling.

 

[Hanesu]

I still cant understand why @Sulbh has bought the regular version of the sg1 instead of getting a used dap with a proper 4V balanced output when he had the AK pa10...
Hes had everything he needed but went a different path and complicated his case even more.

I can`t reply for him...but....welcome to the world of us audio nerds. I can imagine a thousand scenarios. One would be: He is explictly looking for a BT DAC Amp (not a DAP). He got curious about the sound of the SG1 - due to the positive reviews - and simply wants to compare it. He realized it has less driving power on paper than his other gear, but still does not expect it not to be able to drive his phones (because, just as he said, even his smartphone can). So he just ordered it...and now realized it`s not what he expected. And I feel there is nothing wrong about it.

EDIT: Oh, just realized that Sulbh already replied by himself

 

[RIGATIO]

That's not how it works. Each device should be judged on its own. I happen to have other products does not mean that weakness of SG1 is justified. Many others might not have multiple devices. And some headphones do not have balanced option like DT 770 Pro and some other IEMs. You cannot make a weak product which is weaker than every other product in its price range and even below it and then come up with excuse like hey it was meant to be weak now go buy our other product which is $200 more expensive than this one. That's called upselling.

I get u but the standard sg1 is sufficient for driving most iems, delivering a very specific, colored and analog sound. This was the purpose of this device and it was clearly described as such in almost every review. The Gold version is an amplified version of the standard sg1 to deliver 3-4x more power for those who wanted similar sound signature but with more headroom in terms of power, dynamics and soundstage. Sorry you didnt find your preffered device and i encourage you to take a look at the Diablo 2 from IFI.

 

[BS5711]

I can`t reply for him...but....welcome to the world of us audio nerds. I can imagine a thousand scenarios. One would be: He is explictly looking for a BT DAC Amp (not a DAP). He got curious about the sound of the SG1 - due to the positive reviews - and simply wants to compare it. He realized it has less driving power on paper than his other gear, but still does not expect it not to be able to drive his phones (because, just as he said, even his smartphone can). So he just ordered it...and now realized it`s not what he expected. And I feel there is nothing wrong about it.

EDIT: Oh, just realized that Sulbh already replied by himself

I think the problem here stems from myself and others having seen the posters recent similar complaints about the Astell and Kern PA10 that stem from his lack of understanding about the input voltage versus the output power.

The complaints about the SG1 are something of an extension of a previous discussion.

 

[Sulbh]

I can`t reply for him...but....welcome to the world of us audio nerds. I can imagine a thousand scenarios. One would be: He is explictly looking for a BT DAC Amp (not a DAP). He got curious about the sound of the SG1 - due to the positive reviews - and simply wants to compare it. He realized it has less driving power on paper than his other gear, but still does not expect it not to be able to drive his phones (because, just as he said, even his smartphone can). So he just ordered it...and now realized it`s not what he expected. And I feel there is nothing wrong about it.

EDIT: Oh, just realized that Sulbh already replied by himself

Yes I rarely complain about products I mean very rarely. I understand that companies put a lot of work and expertise to make them. But what true is true. This device is unexpectedly underpowered compared to every other device in the same range.

 

[RIGATIO]

Yes I rarely complain about products I mean very rarely. I understand that companies put a lot of work and expertise to make them. But what true is true. This device is unexpectedly underpowered compared to every other device in the same range.

Yes the standard sg1 is underpowered and everyone agrees with you here (unless you use sufficient iems).
But you made a mistake not reading/watching enough reviews and data sheets. I could also get a Fiio BTR7, imaging it as a standalone dac/amp and complain that it isnt efficient enough to drive my planars. Devices have their purpose and i always read A LOT before i buy anything. Most DAPs cant drive even cheaper full sized planars for example, doesnt matter if the DAP costs 400 or 4000 bucks. You think that if you spend 4k on a DAP it should drive every single headphone on the market? NO.
Again, get the pa10 and a used dap to pair with it or just buy IFI Diablo 2 (it has BT built in).

 

[Sulbh]

If you are gonna blame me for not reading technical details then how do you explain that dethonray says it puts out 2.9V in single ended and G8 put out 2V and it yet is it underpowered compared to G8?

 

[RIGATIO]

If you are gonna blame me for not reading technical details then how do you explain that dethonray says it puts out 2.9V in single ended and G8 put out 2V and it yet is it underpowered compared to G8?

We still dont know if the datas provided by LG refer to the power output for the headphones above 50 Ohms. Maybe LG phones are able to output more voltage when you plug headpones with 50 Ohms + and they even dont mention it. Ive had the LG V30 and it was very powerful but the sound quality was definitely on a lower level than on my old Pioneer xdp300r (150 mW from balanced out), driving the same 50 Ohms iems.
This is indeed confusing but the data sheet alone isnt enough to understand what real power the device can deliver, thats why its important to read/watch reviews on different forums.
The IFI Zen Dac V2 can output "4.4mm Pentaconn (BAL) 330mW@32 Ohm" for example and from my expericence it was more powerful than the IBasso dx320 and AK Kann Max when i tried to drive the Sundaras for example. Also IFI has a very shady advertising when it comes to the power outputs of their devices.
I agree with you that companies are playing dirty games very often, thats why you NEED to read about people's experiences. Head Fi is a good source to collect important informations.
In the pa10 thread i gave you the advice to get a used balanced dap to pair with the pa10 and i bet you would be very happy.
If you dont want to go back, just get the Diablo 2 or Shanling H7 which can output 1.3W into 32 Ohms of pure power (i know it because ive had it and its very powerful).

 

[RIGATIO]

If you are gonna blame me for not reading technical details then how do you explain that dethonray says it puts out 2.9V in single ended and G8 put out 2V and it yet is it underpowered compared to G8?

If you can only use a 3.5 mm out, then the Diablo 2 would be sufficient. The Shanling H7 can only deliver 450 mW from single ended.

 

[BS5711]

Unfortunately specs don’t always tell the whole story, some devices have quirks or idiosyncrasies and some just seem to perform above or below expectations.

I have two DAP, one is spec’d at around twice the power output of the other but based on listening volume I would swear the less powerful one is actually notably more powerful.

I have a desktop amp that seems very much lower power output than specs until you realise that the volume ramp of the potentiometer is odd and the output probably doubles in the last 1/8th of its travel and the volume increase through the middle half of the travel is minor. It seems to be set up to improve user friendliness with IEM.

I get your frustration but unfortunately that is the way things work out sometimes if buying without first listening in person which many of us can’t do, been there and done that.

My best suggestion is to buy an iFi Diablo if you need plenty of power in a portable form factor. I have a Diablo and it will drive 250 ohm DT1770 Pro to unlistenable levels from the single ended 1/4 inch jack and will run your 80 ohm Beyers to insane volume, there will certainly be no complaints that it can’t outdo your phone. It can do something around 8.5 to 9 volts single ended into 80 ohms.

 

[povidlo]

@BS5711 , @RIGATIO fellas, take it easy. I have sg1 (gold) along with ak10 and have been following this conversation closely. Although I generally agree with your points, comments from @Sulbh regarding how these devices' output compares with his lg phone might be controversial but relevant also. We need to respect his opinion and not trash it. I own oldass, forgotten devices from many years ago (ar-m2, centrance dacport slim, etc) that are much better than most sh1t released nowadays.

@Sulbh , since you don't appear to have desire to dab into balanced, i'd grab topping nx7 to connect to your lg and call it a day. nx7 can push 1.5w single-ended into 32ohms, with 3.5mm input. neutral and retains most of source's characteristics. affordable as well.

 

[RIGATIO]

@BS5711 , @RIGATIO fellas, take it easy. I have sg1 (gold) along with ak10 and have been following this conversation closely. Although I generally agree with your points, comments from @Sulbh regarding how these devices' output compares with his lg phone might be controversial but relevant also. We need to respect his opinion and not trash it. I own oldass, forgotten devices from many years ago (ar-m2, centrance dacport slim, etc) that are much better than most sh1t released nowadays.

@Sulbh , since you don't appear to have desire to dab into balanced, i'd grab topping nx7 to connect to your lg and call it a day. nx7 can push 1.5w single-ended into 32ohms, with 3.5mm input. neutral and retains most of source's characteristics. affordable as well.

I didnt want to trush him. I confess that i have made a comment once that hes probably trolling but it was at the beginning of the discussion. Later i tried to give him some tips and i understand his disappointment. But all i wanted to tell him in last posts was that he should do a better research before he buys anything to save the money, nerves and time. Im sharing my own experience. I made some mestakes at the beginning of my audio jurney and im now very cautious before i make any new purchase. I want him to make only a good decisions.
BTW, the pa10 paired with a good DAP can be easily considered as an end game, an equivalent of any TOTL DAP.

 

[BladeRose]

I have sg1 and sg1 gold. @ Sulbh, maybe experienced firmware version issues??? I have tried serenade, and the output is only suitable for high sensitivity IEMs and Rhapsody is more powerful than Serenade. In these months, SG1 and Grade wireless have been my favorites!