[Prophet293]

I was just wondering, if I was to use the DA-10 as a DAC only, how do I bypass the amp section? Use aux out?

 

[audionewbi]

  I was just wondering, if I was to use the DA-10 as a DAC only, how do I bypass the amp section? Use aux out?

i dont think it is a true bypass, it is just sets the line out to 700 microvolt. Set the switch to fixed out before you turn the device on and all set.

 

[Dogmatrix]

Session 2 HD800
This time I am running direct from Itunes on my laptop all Apple Loss-less and the same eclectic favorites mix as last time . Connection is via an Audio-Quest Forrest .75m cable and the charge switch is set to off
 
Evidently the HD800 does require more power than the HD650 where the 650 was happy on low gain the 800 not so much . Low gain was sufficient to attain good levels from the 800 but I was able to hit the stop without bursting an eardrum so decided to engage high gain . In pure delivery terms I could not pick any difference between high and low once volume was matched but I stuck with high as I was not comfortable with the pot close to its limit on low
 
Frequency response is again neutral but this time the bump has moved up into the treble region . Bass is clean and crisp and a little more extended than the 650 . Mid range is lush and smooth with a very natural and organic timbre to voices and brass in particular , strings also seem very accurate in tone . Stage is wide and stable with clear separation
 
Sitting back and enjoying the show the little Denon gives an entertaining and engaging performance . Look more closely and the smoke begins to clear revealing the strings and mirrors behind the illusion . Compared to my balanced SS rig the Denon lacks weight and control and the eargasmic euphonious glory of my custom SET amp is also absent . Pushed hard that treble bump begins to become harsh and sibilance creeps in 
However this is the HD800 a headphone that has sent many a dac and amp limping away in shame , it is the great revealer 
 
Summing up , the Denon does a remarkably competent job of driving the HD800 . As a portable set in a hotel or during a power out it is a genuine hi end option but it lacks the refinement of a full scale rig .

 

[dabotsonline]

  Denon does not have optical and it is limited to 24/48 and can act as an amp. It seems like they are so confident about their tuning that they believe it should not matter as they will win due to how good they tuned it...
 
Here is a brief introduction: http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/topic/20140909_662329.html

 
The translation of that article says,
 
"when the iPhone / iPod connection it is up to 48kHz / 24bit."
 
I presume that that refers to when the included 30-Pin to USB or Lightning to USB cables are used. However, is this also the case when the Camera Connection Kit or Lightning to USB Adapter are used, in the same way that the Cypher Labs Theorem 720 DAC and Centrance HiFi-M8 are both still limited to 96/24 and not 192/24? @audionewbi or anyone else: can you confirm? The following resources make no mention of it:
 
Product Information Sheet:
http://assets.eu.denon.com/DocumentMaster/MASTER/Denon_DA-10_EN01.pdf
 
Quick Start Guide:
http://assets.eu.denon.com/DocumentMaster/MASTER/DA-10EM_ENG_QuickStartGuide_IM_v00.pdf
 
Instruction Manual:
http://assets.eu.denon.com/DocumentMaster/MASTER/DA-10EM_ENG_CD-ROM_IM_v00.pdf
 
Thanks for the comparing the Denon DA-10 against the Chord Hugo. I would also like to see it compared against the Sony PHA-3 (as someone else has said) and PHA-2, as well as the upcoming OPPO HA-2.

 

[audionewbi]

The translation of that article says,

"when the iPhone / iPod connection it is up to 48kHz / 24bit."

I presume that that refers to when the included 30-Pin to USB or Lightning to USB cables are used. However, is this also the case when the Camera Connection Kit or Lightning to USB Adapter are used, in the same way that the Cypher Labs Theorem 720 DAC and Centrance HiFi-M8 are both still limited to 96/24 and not 192/24? @audionewbi
 or anyone else: can you confirm? The following resources make no mention of it:

Product Information Sheet:
http://assets.eu.denon.com/DocumentMaster/MASTER/Denon_DA-10_EN01.pdf

Quick Start Guide:
http://assets.eu.denon.com/DocumentMaster/MASTER/DA-10EM_ENG_QuickStartGuide_IM_v00.pdf

Instruction Manual:
http://assets.eu.denon.com/DocumentMaster/MASTER/DA-10EM_ENG_CD-ROM_IM_v00.pdf

Thanks for the comparing the Denon DA-10 against the Chord Hugo. I would also like to see it compared against the Sony PHA-3 (as someone else has said) and PHA-2, as well as the upcoming OPPO HA-2.

With cck and onkyo app it can support DSD 5.6 no issue at all.

I have stopped using the da-10 and will return to it in a months time to see if I still feel the same about it.

 

[Dogmatrix]

Session 3
Shure SE215
 
Lap top out Itunes Lossless Forest usb charge off
 
Presentation mostly neutral with a slight lift in bass and fall in treble
Compared with the previous trials with headphones the DA10 sounds more comfortable with an iem there is more body and dynamics to the sound
Stage is more intimate and a little compressed in terms of separation
Bass is strong and detailed but lacking control , mids have the smooth organic nature which seems to be present regardless of headphone , treble is a little recessed and fatigue free 
Stronger bass and weaker treble has a nice synergy with the DA10 it is very relaxing and pleasant so I may follow this line for a while
Volume is good on low gain with around 50% useful range a touch of imbalance at very low levels and absolutely noise free 
 
[size=13.1428575515747px]As much as the Denon was a little "outclassed" by the HD800 I feel the opposite is true here with the shures lacking the ability to render detail making the whole a bit midfi . However the AL32 processing is creating a very analogue natural sound that is quite unique and I am enjoying it very much [/size]

 

[dabotsonline]

With cck and onkyo app it can support DSD 5.6 no issue at all.

I have stopped using the da-10 and will return to it in a months time to see if I still feel the same about it.

 
Thanks for the swift response, @audionewbi , but what about with 24-bit/192kHz FLAC / ALAC / WAV / AIFF?

 

[audionewbi]

Thanks for the swift response, @audionewbi
 , but what about with 24-bit/192kHz FLAC / ALAC / WAV / AIFF?

Yes all that s supported too.

 

[Dogmatrix]

Session 4
Audio Technica ATH-IM70
 
Back to the Classic it's more convenient and I am not picking up any sq difference between sources
Presentation is very neutral with a treble lift that is only evident at very high volume . Common to all the phones I have tried so far it is the treble region that begins to fail first becoming harsh and increasing in sibilance . I find this interesting as the amp section appears to favor the upper frequencies generally . All this is at volume levels far above normal or safe so it is not a problem just interesting . Although it may become an issue when line out is used I guess it depends on how much of the amp circuit is employed in fixed out mode .
 
Bass is well controlled , tight and fast , mids display the now familiar smoothness and air , treble is clean and sharp . Stage is wide for an iem and well defined with clear separation . Fine detail is lost in complex passages but quite good otherwise .
 
Things are looking up , the IM70 and DA10 seem well matched my only criticism is in volume control with only around 25% usable range on low gain . A favorite hate of mine I can't understand why manufacturers can't or won't build an amp with true low gain . I really don't need a portable unit that can drive the HD650 on low gain , I need one that gives a decent level of control with the sensitive iem's that now proliferate in the market .
 
Protests aside I could live with this combo long term the IM70 is good enough to let much of the AL32 magic shine through and its natural signature compliments the DA10 amp section well .

 

[audionewbi]

Appreciate your update, I also do not understand why cant they implement a three gain setting. I too cannot use the knob below that range as simply the imbalance is too much.
The magic of DA-10 is the Al32 algorithm which from what I read is Digital to digital to analog kind of processing which to my ear is only working when used with the ipod entry. When used as a pure DAC the AL32 seems to be bypassed. Or to my ears when I use the ipod as a source the sounds is more smoother and is not really dependent on the files I feed it but when I use it as a pure DAC GI=GO sort of a thing.
 
I hope DA-20 has optical in, better amp section and still maintains the same DAC section, it will be a true winner.
 
I realize many folks might disagree and think I might be hyping things up but honestly I have tested a lot of different things and this is the only DAC/amp solution at a reasonable price that can actually delivery. I was disappointed that its micro USB section requires 5 volt to wakeup and work and that meant I could not use my A-series walkman but I guess cant get it all. 
 
My major criticism is I dislike apple oriented approach to things, as I see it apple is no longer interested in the ipod lineup and it is really risky to make such devices. DA-10 is really suited to be paired with ipod classic loaded with redbook albums and with that gone we are stuck with the 64 GB ipod unless you are willing to spend large sum of money for the 128 GB ipod products.

 

[Dogmatrix]

It is a pity the Sony line is not compatible I was considering going that way myself .
Apple appears to have abandoned the audiophile market but perhaps will pick up again next year , I think their failure to update the Ipod line this year may be a good sign .
Otherwise it does leave the market for the DA10 quite narrow as they lock out many of the daps on the market. I do believe all digital inputs are passed through the AL32 processors , going from Denons flow chart and the fact that they function as low pass filters for the dac .

 

[audionewbi]

  It is a pity the Sony line is not compatible I was considering going that way myself .
Apple appears to have abandoned the audiophile market but perhaps will pick up again next year , I think their failure to update the Ipod line this year may be a good sign .
Otherwise it does leave the market for the DA10 quite narrow as they lock out many of the daps on the market. I do believe all digital inputs are passed through the AL32 processors , going from Denons flow chart and the fact that they function as low pass filters for the dac .

When I try to listen to a DSD the file sounds different when I use the cck+microUB+onkyo vs onkyo+micro USB. Maybe the onkyo downsample does not do a proper job? Or maybe I am just hearing things.
 
I am just interested to see what Denon comes up with next.

 

[Dogmatrix]

To be honest I really don't understand what is going on inside the AL32 gizmo all this interpolation and algorithm stuff is a bit of a mystery . I am most confused by the differential output of the Burr-Brown dac which I assume is analogue passing into the AL32 where it seems it is converted back to digital up-sampled and reconverted to analogue in its improved smoothed waveform . It would make more sense to me if the Burr-Brown output was 32bit digital but then it wouldn't be a dac and it wouldn't be differential . 
Anyway it sounds good to me , session 5 is underway with the ASG 2 I will post a short impression tomorrow 

 

[Dogmatrix]

Session 5
Aurisonics  ASG-2
 
Still sticking with the classic and my favorites list
 
Presentation is neutral and remains so regardless of volume level
Bass is strong and full bodied with clean accurate detail , mids are full of detail and open , treble is rich and clear
Stage is wide and stable with clear separation which holds well in complex passages
 
I run my ASG-2 with the ports 30% open which judging from other posts in the Aurisonics threads is allot , most people seem to run either closed or slightly open
For me they sound right at 30% , however when combined with poor amplification the bass turns feral becoming boomy and monotone
No problem with the DA10 everything is precisely controlled , beautiful timbre from the double bass and each drum in the kit is easily picked out
 
Smooth rich detail from the AL32 chips is coming through strong with this iem I appear to have found a "Goldilocks" combo , synergy is excellent
Once again the volume range is a small annoyance being the worst so far at near 20% , fortunately the imbalance in my unit is very small and the range is workable with a delicate touch
 
Great combo , the DA10 really shows off its potential for high quality audio with an iem of this level

 

[Prophet293]

I wonder if any of you could get your hands on a DA300USB and do a direct comparison, AFAIK the DA-10 is basically a portable version  of DA300USB with higher gain.