[Magick Man]

The measurements were done before the proper burn in and they were obviously using a stock cable. 

Not meaning to sound trollish here, really not...

Not sure if serious... if there is burn-in, the jury is still out on that. And even if cables make a tangible difference in sound, the jury will tackle that next. Nothing will make up that kind of ground, except a 10lb sledge and a new set of cans.

I was just teasing. I also got the chance to hear two different pairs of these one of which was for a long period of time. I'd easily pick the D2000 as well. 

Oh good, I thought my pancreas was going to implode.

 

[kasimoa]

Going to take a break from this thread. Will be back when I get my hands on a HD 650 and do some comparisons. Frankly my ears are telling me a different story than what is being said. Some people complain about the out of control bass, while others talk about distortion and graininess, and  some complain  about too much resonance. The reviews besides from Head-fi have all been positive.
 
http://yklee118.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/launch-of-new-denon-ah-d7100.html
 
http://www.trustedreviews.com/denon-ah-d7100_Headphones_review

 

[kasimoa]

 
Even headroom.com shows the same graph which shows the frequency response and right next to it say "Superb sound quality near top of sealed/Closed category". Has to be some joke.... So what is it fart canons or otherwise from the graphs. These are the same people who have taken the measurements. 

 

[Magick Man]

People can talk, reviewers can review, and that's fine, but the level of distortion and overall syrupy coloration that I heard is plainly evident in the chart. THD of over 1% is bad, but there are peaks approaching 5% there, and that's abysmal. Looking at the 300Hz square wave, where one of the nastier distortion peaks resides, you see one of the worst I've ever seen from any headphone. (Those jagged peaks and valleys should be flat... and well, they're the opposite of flat.)



It should look a lot more like this:



(The second one is the Denon AH-D7000, coincidentally.)

Maybe I got a bad set, maybe Tyll Hertsens (the man who did the measurements) got a bad set too, and same goes for many others in this thread. That could all be possible, but it doesn't say anything good about their QC, if that's the case.

 

[kasimoa]

I would have to spend some time going over other graphs and measurements, but I have to say that looking at the frequency graph I agree with the bass response. There is no doubt these headphone are bass heavy as can be seen from the high Amplitude reading at low frequency. The mids also seem to be tame but  my problem is when we get into the higher frequencies. The graph implies that they would be treble shy. But that is the complete opposite of what I hear. The big dip in Amplitude around 5000Hz does not make sense and then from there onwards they never seem to recover. My personal experience is that I hear plenty of treble and detail at higher frequency. That is what I can understand from the graph. If anyone would care to explain otherwise more than welcome.  
 
 

 

[warrenpchi]

Quote:

Maybe I got a bad set, maybe Tyll Hertsens (the man who did the measurements) got a bad set too, and same goes for many others in this thread. That could all be possible, but it doesn't say anything good about their QC, if that's the case.

 
Sure, that's certainly possible.  I guess a big part of this equation is trying to figure out exactly who has taken Foster's place.
 
I don't think there's any denying that there is coloration, particularly in the form of an elevated LF response - but certainly not by 15dB.  So TBH, it's hard for me to correlate Tyll's graphs with what I hear on a consistent basis.
 
Maybe purrin would be interested in measuring my pair?  I believe we're in the same general area.

 

[warrenpchi]

Quote:

Quote:

 
And those measurements certainly don't help the D7100's cause.

 
The measurements were done before the proper burn in and they were obviously using a stock cable. 

 
LOL. 

  On a side note, in my experience, they would resemble those graphs with more burn-in, not less.  But LOL nonetheless.

 

[kasimoa]

Quote:

People can talk, reviewers can review, and that's fine, but the level of distortion and overall syrupy coloration that I heard is plainly evident in the chart. THD of over 1% is bad, but there are peaks approaching 5% there, and that's abysmal. Looking at the 300Hz square wave, where one of the nastier distortion peaks resides, you see one of the worst I've ever seen from any headphone. (Those jagged peaks and valleys should be flat... and well, they're the opposite of flat.)



It should look a lot more like this:



(The second one is the Denon AH-D7000, coincidentally.)

Maybe I got a bad set, maybe Tyll Hertsens (the man who did the measurements) got a bad set too, and same goes for many others in this thread. That could all be possible, but it doesn't say anything good about their QC, if that's the case.

Please can you give some real world example as to how your heard the distortion. It would be helpful for some tracks for me to check out and see if I hear the same sort of distortion, I see the graphs and see your point. But I would like to take this up with Denon and ask them to answer some of the questions raised in this form. Thanks

 

[Magick Man]

With any quiet passage I can hear the loss of detail. The distortion comes across as a loss of resolution, compared to more resolving headphones, like it's older brother the D7000 or the Fostex TH600s. Things that I can hear with them I couldn't hear with D7100s, that information is just gone. Resonance is what you'd imagine, there's a minute echo and loss of clarity.

 

[Taowolf51]

Quote:

 
Sure, that's certainly possible.  I guess a big part of this equation is trying to figure out exactly who has taken Foster's place.
 
I don't think there's any denying that there is coloration, particularly in the form of an elevated LF response - but certainly not by 15dB.  So TBH, it's hard for me to correlate Tyll's graphs with what I hear on a consistent basis.
 
Maybe purrin would be interested in measuring my pair?  I believe we're in the same general area.

 
The TH900 also has a large bass hump while most people report the headphones as being fairly balanced (perhaps more balanced than the D7000's, which measure much better in FR graphs).
 

 

[Magick Man]

TH900s, however, have so much less distortion (by orders of magnitude) that the bass sounds much more controlled.

 

[kasimoa]

Quote:

TH900s, however, have so much less distortion (by orders of magnitude) that the bass sounds much more controlled.

Looking at your profile I see you have a lot of equipment to compare and contrast the Denon AH-D7100. But you don't list them in your profile. So my question is how long have you had them? Just to get to know if you have given them enough time for burn-in. Love your car collection by the way  

 

[Magick Man]

Looking at your profile I see you have a lot of equipment to compare and contrast the Denon AH-D7100. But you don't list them in your profile. So my question is how long have you had them? Just to get to know if you have given them enough time for burn-in. Love your car collection by the way  

I had them for a week and a half and sent them back. They burned in for the entire time I had them (>200hrs), and it didn't make much of a difference.

 

[kasimoa]

Quote:

I had them for a week and a half and sent them back. They burned in for the entire time I had them (>200hrs), and it didn't make much of a difference.

My experience has been different. From the initial listening after about 70hrs of burn-in they have changed a lot for the better. Keeping these for sure.  

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

My experience has been different. From the initial listening after about 70hrs of burn-in they have changed a lot for the better. Keeping these for sure.  

Might I ask if you've heard the D7000s (or D5000s)?