[tudedude]

I love the signature, resolution and slam. But where is the soundstage in these cans? That was kinda the stand out feature of the 5200 IMO.

Have you tried it with a non-hybrid tube amp? I was kind of disappointed with the forward depth and layering of the 9200. It had good width and clarity but sounded flat to be honest. Then I got a valhalla 2 and it became holographic with great layering and separation. The soundstage is now as good as it gets for a closedback IMO.

 

[Sproketz]

Have you tried it with a non-hybrid tube amp? I was kind of disappointed with the forward depth and layering of the 9200. It had good width and clarity but sounded flat to be honest. Then I got a valhalla 2 and it became holographic with great layering and separation. The soundstage is now as good as it gets for a closedback IMO.

Thanks for mentioning the Valhalla 2. I was just starting to look into tube amps. I don't have one yet.

What made you choose the Valhalla and what DAC are you running it with?

 

[tudedude]

Thanks for mentioning the Valhalla 2. I was just starting to look into tube amps. I don't have one yet.

What made you choose the Valhalla and what DAC are you running it with?

I chose the Valhalla 2 mainly because it's the only affordable otl tube amp I could find that's made for low impedance headphones. I didn't want to go hybrid because my experience with the Xduoo 602 left me underwhelmed. I'm using the Fiio Bta30 pro for my dac because I can easily go from amp to bluetooth with the flip of a switch.

 

[Sproketz]

I chose the Valhalla 2 mainly because it's the only affordable otl tube amp I could find that's made for low impedance headphones. I didn't want to go hybrid because my experience with the Xduoo 602 left me underwhelmed. I'm using the Fiio Bta30 pro for my dac because I can easily go from amp to bluetooth with the flip of a switch.

It sounds like you find there to be a pretty marked sound difference. Do you think I'd hear a big jump coming from a DX3pro+ to a Valhalla + Bifrost stack? I haven't heard a tube amp before, so I'm not sure what to expect.

I could also just keep the DX3pro for the DAC and try the Valhalla with it.

 

[tudedude]

It sounds like you find there to be a pretty marked sound difference. Do you think I'd hear a big jump coming from a DX3pro+ to a Valhalla + Bifrost stack? I haven't heard a tube amp before, so I'm not sure what to expect.

I could also just keep the DX3pro for the DAC and try the Valhalla with it.

The marked sound difference I hear could be because my previous amps were all entry level budget solutions and portable devices like the qudelix. I think you'll hear a big jump going to that stack. Keep in mind that the Valhalla 2 isn't supposed to have an overly warm tubey sound but it does have that holographic and airy affect which adds a lot to the 9200 in my opinion. I don't have experience with dacs in the price range of the bifrost so I have no idea how that will sound. I'm one of those dac skeptics, but tech like r2r and multibit does interest me. Yeah you can see how the dx3pro sounds first before committing to the bifrost.

 

[DrewVz]

Soundstage doesn't just happen out of the blue. You need quality gear upstream, high resolution DAC and powerful amp with lots of headroom and a high damping factor. The better you can control the drivers, the better your staging will be. That takes power.

You don't necessarily need a tube amp. My Pontus 2 and Burson Soloist 3x are perfectly capable of generating all the soundstage you need with the D9200 cans.

Love my Denons. Haven't found any closed backs that beat them so far at anywhere near their price. Great bass texture and good dynamics with a clear midrange. Sweet sounding.

 

[Blinxat]

I guess it is more holographic than wide. It also has a very strong center image.

Bass seems like one of its best qualities.

I hear some mid-mid forwardness on some tracks that make vocals a little throaty thick.

timbre is quite organic but I think it ialso aims to extract more details in the highs, somewhere there is a "papery" spot to it.

as a package it is very fun.

 

[Sproketz]

Soundstage doesn't just happen out of the blue. You need quality gear upstream, high resolution DAC and powerful amp with lots of headroom and a high damping factor. The better you can control the drivers, the better your staging will be. That takes power.

You don't necessarily need a tube amp. My Pontus 2 and Burson Soloist 3x are perfectly capable of generating all the soundstage you need with the D9200 cans.

Love my Denons. Haven't found any closed backs that beat them so far at anywhere near their price. Great bass texture and good dynamics with a clear midrange. Sweet sounding.

I'm using a DX3pro+ my D9200. The DX3pro+ website states it has 1800mW x2 @ 32ohms.

Will I see benefits with a higher powered amp at the same listening volumes? If so, how much power should I be looking for?

 

[waveSounds]

Well, with a 24 ohm impedance and 105db/mw sensitivity you're clearly needing at least 300 Watts. Minimum. Anything less and it might as well be plugged into a potato.

 

[Blinxat]

I use Sabaj d4. From 40 Volume steps I run the 9200 on 16 to 18 anything above 20 would be too loud for me.

The only headphone I take to 30 out of 40 on this dac amp is the 600ohm dt880

 

[DrewVz]

I'm using a DX3pro+ my D9200. The DX3pro+ website states it has 1800mW x2 @ 32ohms.

Will I see benefits with a higher powered amp at the same listening volumes? If so, how much power should I be looking for?

Most people think power = volume. That's not true. Power = control. If you want accuracy, speed, and damping, then you need power and high damping factor from your amp. Volume is completely irrelevant.... as far as power is concerned. Even very small powered amps can produce ear-splitting volumes. But it comes at a cost of sound quality and stage depth.

In my experience, volume is directly related to soundstage. And by that, I mean that if your drivers aren't well-controlled, then you need to REDUCE your volume in order to get them to behave properly. Most people listen to IEMs, headphones, and even speakers at such loud volumes that their equipment can't support. Sorry, but it's true. With IEMs in particular, you really need to reduce the volume considerably to allow the drivers to be adequately controlled in order to provide the best soundstage depth and space. The drivers are just too small to provide both volume AND spatial information without good quality gear upstream, relatively large cables, and very fast drivers. Headphones are much the same, and speakers require even more power to get their drivers under control.

Try listening to your IEMs at such a low volume that you can just BARELY hear all the details. Start really really low and then raise the volume. And then evaluate the sense of space. Listen at this volume for an hour or two with your favorite music. Then turn up the volume to your "normal" range and listen again. I'll bet that the second time around might sound more "dynamic", but you will lose a huge amount of spatial cues and the soundstage will be irregular. It's all a matter of preference, but if you're looking for soundstage, then you need to reduce the volume. Better gear can support higher volumes, but most portable and desktop setups under 3 or 4 Watts just can't cut it. As soon as people start equating volume to power, without considering driver control and sense of space, I know that they really haven't heard music to the fullest extent possible.

 

[Sproketz]

Most people think power = volume. That's not true. Power = control. If you want accuracy, speed, and damping, then you need power and high damping factor from your amp. Volume is completely irrelevant.... as far as power is concerned. Even very small powered amps can produce ear-splitting volumes. But it comes at a cost of sound quality and stage depth.

In my experience, volume is directly related to soundstage. And by that, I mean that if your drivers aren't well-controlled, then you need to REDUCE your volume in order to get them to behave properly. Most people listen to IEMs, headphones, and even speakers at such loud volumes that their equipment can't support. Sorry, but it's true. With IEMs in particular, you really need to reduce the volume considerably to allow the drivers to be adequately controlled in order to provide the best soundstage depth and space. The drivers are just too small to provide both volume AND spatial information without good quality gear upstream, relatively large cables, and very fast drivers. Headphones are much the same, and speakers require even more power to get their drivers under control.

Try listening to your IEMs at such a low volume that you can just BARELY hear all the details. Start really really low and then raise the volume. And then evaluate the sense of space. Listen at this volume for an hour or two with your favorite music. Then turn up the volume to your "normal" range and listen again. I'll bet that the second time around might sound more "dynamic", but you will lose a huge amount of spatial cues and the soundstage will be irregular. It's all a matter of preference, but if you're looking for soundstage, then you need to reduce the volume. Better gear can support higher volumes, but most portable and desktop setups under 3 or 4 Watts just can't cut it. As soon as people start equating volume to power, without considering driver control and sense of space, I know that they really haven't heard music to the fullest extent possible.

Thanks for the detailed reply. Like you I'm not looking for loud. I'm just looking to drive quality.

I do notice going from my Qudelix to my DX3Pro+ that at the same volumes, the sound has a more spatial and full quality. The jump is huge going from unbalanced to balanced just on the Qudelix alone.

It got me wondering how much of a stage and quality jump is left if I moved up to a Lyr3 for example which is pushing 6w per channel at 32ohms.

Could also go for a Burson Conductor 3xp.

I'm curious where diminished or zero returns kick in on power for the D9200.

Thanks again.

 

[waveSounds]

Listening with no volume is the ultimate experience. Your headphones can finally be unbridled by the limitations imposed on them through making sound. Soundstage is now limited by your mind alone.

 

[Sproketz]

Listening with no volume is the ultimate experience. Your headphones can finally be unbridled by the limitations imposed on them through making sound. Soundstage is now limited by your mind alone.

You're right. I put you on ignore and the silence is lovely. Thanks for offering nothing to the conversation.

 

[waveSounds]

God speed my guy. Go spend a tonne on a super high watt amp to power an extremely low impedance, high sensitivity can, then listen to it on a really low volume.