[K-MONEY]

ah! hahahaha!
 

 

[shane55]

Quote:

haha yeah. Maybe it's a she?

Either way... I agree with Frank.
 

 

[pcf]

Quote:

 
IMO its wrong to use someone like that. If your an online buyer then you buy with a 30 day trial. To go to someone who is brick and mortar use his facility and his time he should negotiate the best price and buy from the guy. It IMO is the ethically correct thing to do. In 31 yrs in the hobby I always work that way but to each his own. In your case one day there will be no place to audition as high end dealers are dropping like flies.

Hi Frank,
 
It might be the right thing to do but in reality most people will buy from the cheapest place.There is no rule to say that you have to buy the product from the dealer because you heard a demo from the same shop. If you had a test drive of a car in one dealership and found that you could get the same car from somewhere else for a lot less, would you still go back to the first one and pay more? My experience in this hobby seems to be similar to yours- I started 30 years ago and always bought from the shops that I knew well; listening to different products in the shop; having home demo and all that. But I never felt I had to buy anything from anyone because they provided a demo for me. I did it because I liked the service. Beng able to have home demo, getting opinions from the dealer about different products and after sale service are the reasons I bought from brick and mortar shops, not because I felt I had a moral duty to do so. A brick and mortar shop cannot reply on people's good well to run a business but they can provide better after sale service than online shops. Hi end hi fi shops have other problems such as a much small market too. Frys and Best Buy sell tons of things and I don't think it is because people feel they have to buy from them after they hear a demo of the Bose speaker system. I unstand your point and admire that fact that you have your principle, but this is really hard to enforce and I would not blame others for not doing it.
I actually bought my Denon D7000 from a brick and mortar shop- Magnolia. They didn't provide any headphones demo. In fact, I ordered them on the phone and went to the shop to pick them up. The only reason I did so was because they were cheaper than all the online shops at the time.
 
 
Cheers.
 
Paul

 

[K-MONEY]

THANK YOU.
 
Quote:

Hi Frank,
 
It might be the right thing to do but in reality most people will buy from the cheapest place.There is no rule to say that you have to buy the product from the dealer because you heard a demo from the same shop. If you had a test drive of a car in one dealership and found that you could get the same car from somewhere else for a lot less, would you still go back to the first one and pay more? My experience in this hobby seems to be similar to yours- I started 30 years ago and always bought from the shops that I knew well; listening to different products in the shop; having home demo and all that. But I never felt I had to buy anything from anyone because they provided a demo for me. I did it because I liked the service. Beng able to have home demo, getting opinions from the dealer about different products and after sale service are the reasons I bought from brick and mortar shops, not because I felt I had a moral duty to do so. A brick and mortar shop cannot reply on people's good well to run a business but they can provide better after sale service than online shops. Hi end hi fi shops have other problems such as a much small market too. Frys and Best Buy sell tons of things and I don't think it is because people feel they have to buy from them after they hear a demo of the Bose speaker system. I unstand your point and admire that fact that you have your principle, but this is really hard to enforce and I would not blame others for not doing it.
I actually bought my Denon D7000 from a brick and mortar shop- Magnolia. They didn't provide any headphones demo. In fact, I ordered them on the phone and went to the shop to pick them up. The only reason I did so was because they were cheaper than all the online shops at the time.
 
 
Cheers.
 
Paul

 

[shane55]

Quote:

Hi Frank,
 
It might be the right thing to do but in reality most people will buy from the cheapest place.There is no rule to say that you have to buy the product from the dealer because you heard a demo from the same shop. If you had a test drive of a car in one dealership and found that you could get the same car from somewhere else for a lot less, would you still go back to the first one and pay more? My experience in this hobby seems to be similar to yours- I started 30 years ago and always bought from the shops that I knew well; listening to different products in the shop; having home demo and all that. But I never felt I had to buy anything from anyone because they provided a demo for me. I did it because I liked the service. Beng able to have home demo, getting opinions from the dealer about different products and after sale service are the reasons I bought from brick and mortar shops, not because I felt I had a moral duty to do so. A brick and mortar shop cannot reply on people's good well to run a business but they can provide better after sale service than online shops. Hi end hi fi shops have other problems such as a much small market too. Frys and Best Buy sell tons of things and I don't think it is because people feel they have to buy from them after they hear a demo of the Bose speaker system. I unstand your point and admire that fact that you have your principle, but this is really hard to enforce and I would not blame others for not doing it.
I actually bought my Denon D7000 from a brick and mortar shop- Magnolia. They didn't provide any headphones demo. In fact, I ordered them on the phone and went to the shop to pick them up. The only reason I did so was because they were cheaper than all the online shops at the time.
 
 
Cheers.
 
Paul

 
[size=10pt]Hey Paul.[/size]
[size=10pt]I did the same thing. Ordered via phone from Magnolia, got a killer deal, and picked them up when they came in last week.[/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt]Frank's is a principled stand to which many of us subscribe. I don't think he's attempting to 'enforce' this, but to suggest it as the 'right' thing to do. There have been many occasions where I and others who feel strongly about B&M support have paid more to buy locally. But this is a personal judgment call, not for everyone (obviously), and the other side has a compelling argument. I can certainly see both sides to the issue.[/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt]If Magnolia was not offering these at the outrageous price it did… I certainly would have been looking online for the absolute lowest price possible. But with nowhere to audition these, this specific dilemma is non-existent. Had I tried them at a local B&M I know I would truly be torn as to weather or not to buy them there or online. I know that I would do whatever I could to purchase from wherever I auditioned them.[/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt]Retailers must have, in their business model, the understanding that there is an ‘online’. They must factor into their pricing and inventory and hiring the reality that is Amazon.com. If they do not, they will most certainly go as with the dinosaurs. It’s the law of the jungle and only the fiscally strong will survive. I’ll help them when I can, if I can, but obviously not everyone feels that way, or Barns & Noble (and the local non-chain coffee shop) would still exist today.[/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt]This discussion has been a part of every forum I’ve ever participated in.[/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt]Cheers[/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt]shane[/size]

 

 

[aorbinati]

For what its worth, A friend of mine owns a studio in NYC and uses the 7000's. I'm assuming he loves them because thats all I ever see on his head.
 
Cheers,
Al

 

[pcf]

Quote:

 
[size=10pt]Hey Paul. [/size]
 
 
[size=10pt]I did the same thing. Ordered via phone from Magnolia, got a killer deal, and picked them up when they came in last week. [/size]
 
 
[size=10pt]  [/size]
 
 
[size=10pt]Frank's is a principled stand to which many of us subscribe. I don't think he's attempting to 'enforce' this, but to suggest it as the 'right' thing to do. There have been many occasions where I and others who feel strongly about B&M support have paid more to buy locally. But this is a personal judgment call, not for everyone (obviously), and the other side has a compelling argument. I can certainly see both sides to the issue. [/size]
 
 
 
[size=10pt] [/size]
 
[size=10pt]If Magnolia was not offering these at the outrageous price it did… I certainly would have been looking online for the absolute lowest price possible. But with nowhere to audition these, this specific dilemma is non-existent. Had I tried them at a local B&M I know I would truly be torn as to weather or not to buy them there or online. I know that I would do whatever I could to purchase from wherever I auditioned them. [/size]
 
 
 
[size=10pt] [/size]
 
[size=10pt]Retailers must have, in their business model, the understanding that there is an ‘online’. They must factor into their pricing and inventory and hiring the reality that is Amazon.com. If they do not, they will most certainly go as with the dinosaurs. It’s the law of the jungle and only the fiscally strong will survive. I’ll help them when I can, if I can, but obviously not everyone feels that way, or Barns & Noble (and the local non-chain coffee shop) would still exist today. [/size]
 
 
 
[size=10pt] [/size]
 
[size=10pt]This discussion has been a part of every forum I’ve ever participated in. [/size]
 
 
 
[size=10pt] [/size]
 
[size=10pt]Cheers [/size]
 
 
 
[size=10pt] [/size]
 
[size=10pt]shane [/size]
 
 

 

I have a lot of respect for Frank already just because of his principle eventhough I don't even know him.
The MSRP for Denon D700 is $999. I have to be honest, if that's what the B&M shops are offering, I will find it difficult to resist buying it online. That's why I can understand why some people don't do the right thing.
B&M shops can offer a lot of things that online shops can't. A Linn dealer can come and set up your turntable and provide after sale service and upgrade advice. You cannot get that online. To me that is the key to the servival of brick and mortar shops- giving people something they can't get else where. Customers will always buy from the cheapest place and you cannot reply on them coming back just because you gave them a demo and advice. I remember back in London when the big supermarkets were killing off the small shops, people were urged to support their local shops eventhough they had to pay more. That never worked out. I used Frys as an example in my last post. They have all their TVs and computers etc on demo the whole time. People buy from them not becasue they feel obliged, they buy from Frys because their prices are competitive and you can return everything. A highend hi fi shop cannot operate like Frys but they can still try to offer something that people cannot get online. I still shop at local store like The Analog Room or Sound Perfection becaue I like to see and hear the gears instead of looking at the computer. I buy from them too all the time but if someone offers the same thing online for 50% less (like the Denon D7000).....I don't know.
 
Paul

 

[Frank I]

II deal with Overtur Audio most of the time when I was buying two channel stuff and I always bought in his shop because Terry would let me take any hing home and listen to it. He set up speakers for me and I could listen to stuff for hours without anyone asking me to buy. I would sit it the listening rooms and play with very expensive gear. I even paid mopre for the records and Cd I bought there because I felt the relationship was worth it. I referred and he sold hear over 100K to those people I sent his way. I also always was able to negotiate a fair price. I felt I owed him for what I had learned and IMO that the way I approach. I know you can find stuff cheaper and online is here for good but I hope not all the BM shops close because where else can you audition speakers and stuff you wont be able too buy online. That was my whole point.

 

[subtle]

Quote:

For what its worth, A friend of mine owns a studio in NYC and uses the 7000's. I'm assuming he loves them because thats all I ever see on his head.
 
Cheers,
Al

If he masters albums that are sold to the public I'd love to know the name of his label.  That way I would know never to buy any of their albums. 

 

[tyty5150]

This thread is classic utilitarianism vs. Kantian ethics.
 
Utilitarianism (or cost benefit analysis (CBA)) would obviously pick using the demo to audition but picking the lowest price to maximize your utility or happiness.  This violates Kant's argument about using other people as means to other ends (not respecting dignity).
 
Cool to see how certain people have different moral codes and express them freely online.

 

[aorbinati]

He does electronic/trance music mostly. I really don't like his stuff, but at least he's doin it. I wont sell him out by giving his label name, but chances are you have not heard it. Small operation...

 

[K-MONEY]

$ is $. I don't work hard to do favors, I work hard to live right. It's the truth, if I'm buying something that expensive, you better believe I'm going to do my research well.
 
P.S. If I was a dealer, I would have known backhand that if I do give a pair of headphones to a consumer to audition, there is a good chance this particular consumer might not purchase it from me. There is always 2 sides to the story.

 
Quote:

This thread is classic utilitarianism vs. Kantian ethics.
 
Utilitarianism (or cost benefit analysis (CBA)) would obviously pick using the demo to audition but picking the lowest price to maximize your utility or happiness.  This violates Kant's argument about using other people as means to other ends (not respecting dignity).
 
Cool to see how certain people have different moral codes and express them freely online.

 

[ianmedium]

All I will add to this as you speak utter nonsense and rubbish is that I am sure glad I live no where near your world or have to rely upon you! One day I hope you wake up and know what it is like to be a decent, kind human being!
 
 
Quote:

$ is $. I don't work hard to do favors, I work hard to live right. It's the truth, if I'm buying something that expensive, you better believe I'm going to do my research well.
 
P.S. If I was a dealer, I would have known backhand that if I do give a pair of headphones to a consumer to audition, there is a good chance this particular consumer might not purchase it from me. There is always 2 sides to the story.

 

 

[tyty5150]

You are in the utilitarian school of thought.
 
P.S. The phrase, "If I was" is incorrect grammar.  "If" is followed by "were."  Numeric values one through ten are spelled out in communications not associated with lab reports or technical journals.  Also, "is" in your last sentence should be "are" because it is followed by a plural noun.  Learn to write.  This, along with other vulgarity (found on your community profile), seems like a general lack of respect for this site and makes your comments about anything seem less valid.
Quote:

$ is $. I don't work hard to do favors, I work hard to live right. It's the truth, if I'm buying something that expensive, you better believe I'm going to do my research well.
 
P.S. If I was a dealer, I would have known backhand that if I do give a pair of headphones to a consumer to audition, there is a good chance this particular consumer might not purchase it from me. There is always 2 sides to the story.

 

 

[Frank I]

Quote:

You are in the utilitarian school of thought.
 
P.S. The phrase, "If I was" is incorrect grammar.  "If" is followed by "were."  Numeric values one through ten are spelled out in communications not associated with lab reports or technical journals.  Also, "is" in your last sentence should be "are" because it is followed by a plural noun.  Learn to write.  This, along with other vulgarity (found on your community profile), seems like a general lack of respect for this site and makes your comments about anything seem less valid.

Agree about respect and the vulgarity has no place here. He short lived for this hobby as it takes time and money to really stay in it.