Denafrips Sub-Brand or Rip-off? The case of Musician Audio's Pegasus R2R DAC
Nov 19, 2020 at 8:00 AM Post #167 of 316
Not interested in killing a honest starting business, but what sound processing you are talking about that is different to the established competitors? So far we found that all marketting claims about advantage of Pegasus were false, this is a new issue. Please also specify whether it is software only solution (I'd like to see white papers, patents) or it required beefing up hardware (which part specifically).
I am just an ordinary user who sees this forum differently from yours, I am not guided by financial profit.
And you are very present on the thread of pegasus users, you even stated a couple of posts ago that you are a pegasus user.
Your methods speak to the solidity of your claims.
I'm not an electrical engineer, I just love music and I try to choose the components for my system carefully.
P.S. amazing what miracles a small fuse performs
BTW-I just got it
 
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Nov 19, 2020 at 8:30 AM Post #169 of 316
I am just an ordinary user who sees this forum differently from yours, I am not guided by financial profit.
And you are very present on the thread of pegasus users, you even stated a couple of posts ago that you are a pegasus user.
Thinking, you need edit this.
Your methods speak to the solidity of your claims.
What claims? You made a claim, which turns out another false marketing claim.
 
Nov 19, 2020 at 8:49 AM Post #173 of 316
Soekris is not as accessible. I've tried to order from them and after 2.5 weeks and 3 emails, I was told the unit I wanted is not available anymore. ,🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

That's odd. I'm in Europe though so quite readily available here. The Soekris OEM boards are also quite popular in DIY community, even in Asia!
 
Nov 19, 2020 at 8:56 AM Post #174 of 316
That's odd. I'm in Europe though so quite readily available here. The Soekris OEM boards are also quite popular in DIY community, even in Asia!
Yip. Soekris has an established reputation
 
Nov 19, 2020 at 9:03 AM Post #175 of 316
The main reason for buying pegasus was that the young ambitious team with experience knocked out their first DAC.
It was logical for the business to be exceptional at an unbeatable price (their survival depends on success), plus reading various reviews that praised it. These are engineers who worked in denafrips, where the logic is to place their first product at a 40% higher price than the popular product of another brand(to whom they worked). At the same time, people who have never heard him, belittle him and state that all the reviewers who rated him positively are mercenaries, and the only reviewer who speaks against him is honest !?
And finally, what I can say with 99% certainty, the sound processing performed by the pegasus is impossible found in the DAC below 1.5 K. Good sound requires financial investment, and if you need sure success, you will set up a product that has the best price-quality ratio.
I connected quality inputs and outputs with pegasus and that gives me an exceptional listening experience, I know I invested my money the best.
Only the audiophile community will be harmed by their killing

First, the Pegasus is a fine dac that stands out among many competitors. If you own it you will most probably be satisfied with its performance.

That said, there are some technical issues why I would not recommend it or consider it based on my own experience modifying dac's over the past 10 years (est). Mainly because information about the output stage is deliberately opaque. All I have read is a boast of certain transistors (supposedly continuing to emphasize it's discrete build as opposed to opamps?).

The output stage is a very determining factor of the DAC's final soundquality. So from from that transistor statement I can assume it has an active, amplified, output. This is congruent with the character as 'dynamic', 'strong', etc in diverse reviews. However, and this part is NOT told, this always comes at a cost. Any amplification goes at the cost of information. It introduces distortion, is less well defined, a bit veiled, timing is a bit smeared. All the things that define a discrete R2R are compromised by that active output stage. And the only reviewer who heard this is Jay from NBT studio? Or is he the only one who has the integrity to speak out?
Anyway. Now here comes the kicker: it does not need that active output stage at all (depending on your amplifiers input impedance which could interfere with dynamics, FI if you turn down the volume on a huge amp). I know sajunkie and I differ in opinion on this, but I strongly prefer clarity and definition (ie keeping max information) and I don't have any lack of base ever (triodes or other low power amps plus Genesis bass amp). On any decent high quality amplifier it shouldn't matter. An R2R dac is best left without amplification, it can provide enough voltage by itself. This keeps the signal path incredibly short and simple. That is a big bonus on the part of R2R so why does the Pegasus throw that away?

The other technical issue is the power cap array. The Pegasus uses the ubiquitous standard solution of throwing in a few big relatively cheap elco's and markets it as something special. The reviewers seem to attribute the 'balsy' sound to these big elco's. I say it's probably the output stage (simple logic: Ockhams razor).

Now the other severe issue I have with the whole 'Musician' brand is ethical and it's obvious lack of morals. The design is obviously 'borrowed' (and never returned?) from the Denafrips Ares. All marketing, and this includes unwitting (or corrupted) reviewers, is pointed to a new young team of experienced audiophile designers. All the while the fact that its a blatant copy is treated like a big hairy wooly mammoth providing damping in the listening room. It is not so much that they copied the design and made it worse with some inside and cosmetic outside changes, ok call it different tastes. It's the fact that they are trying to pass it off as their own with all means no matter if its lawful, legal, ethical or moral. That is what I find abject.

Denafrips has a whole range of products. The Ares has been around for some time. It has the same technology as the more expensive products. The Terminator has been very highly praised everywhere. The Ares is built with that same vision on design and how it should sound. Even measurements of the Ares and Terminator are almost identical. So it is safe to say that the Ares IS the original. It costs a lot less and it sounds better.

So where the Pegasus is fine, the Ares overshadows it as even better, cheaper and with great service and open communication. So actually the Pegasus is more a cheap trick than an improvement.
 
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Nov 23, 2020 at 12:55 AM Post #178 of 316
I've just placed an order for the Musician Pegasus DAC (in black) from aliexpress. Been umming and arrring this purchase for a while now... all the curiosity got the better of me this time..

Will pair the DAC with my Gustard U16 DDC via HDMI I2S connection.

Will report back hopefully soon..
 
Nov 24, 2020 at 7:24 AM Post #179 of 316
Hi all, just wanted to share my impressions of the Musician Pegasus. I ordered a black one from Amazon based on Sandu's review. I also own a RME ADI-2 and the Denafrips Ares II. I'm not conversant in all the engineering talk, so my impression is purely based on what I feel when I compared these three DACS. ADI-2 is very clean and resolving and I love the features of the DAC like the live graphs and stuff. I think if you know what you are doing, you can tweak this day to sound similar to many others out there. Extremely versatile and has a decent HPA built in. When I got my Ares II, I was blown away. I definitely prefer the sound of the Ares II. I was wondering if I would notice the differences between an R2R and the ADI-2. I was kinda skeptical, but I did! Most notably the sound stage is more expansive, the instrument separation is way better. Those traits plus the warm, smooth more full bodied sound made me prefer it. It is definitely not as resolving as the ADI-2. Now the Pegasus, it cost me, almost double of the ADI-2. All those rumour and reports scared me a bit - was worried I was paying more for an Ares II in a bigger funny looking chassis. I swapped out the Ares II and in the Pegasus for a while. Did not A/B the 2 but my casual impression was it sounded the same. Same driver, same great expanded sound stage and instrument separation etc. I was kind of meh.... I prefer the looks and form factor of Ares II with rest of my stack than the Pegasus. However, recently I did some spring cleaning, trying to simplify all my gear and sell a bunch of stuff. Finally decided to do more A/B testing between the two so I could decide which one to keep and which to sell. Turns out I should have done the more serious A/B before. When I compared the 2 back and forth, I found the Pegasus retained all the great qualities of the Ares II but was more resolving and clear. Kinda of like the best qualities of ADI-2 sounds with the Ares II. I definitely pick the Pegasus as my favourite DAC in my collection now.

Just for your info - I have Pegasus -> Topping A90 -> HifiMan Susvara. I pump the Pegasus -> Topping A90 also to a Heaven 11 Billie Amp connected to Buchardt S400s. Sounds awesome - really recommend the S400s. People say its not good for desktop/nearfield, but I disagree. They have great imaging and product nice instrument separation and full bodied sound with good low end. I prefer them over my Harbeth Anniversary Limited Edition P3ESRs.

Also, I own a Bakoon Amp 13-R, THX 789 and lots of other I have given away or sold off to get to where I am now. Despite the huge price disparity - I also prefer the sound of the Topping A90 to the Bakoon. Bakoon has a warmer more rounded sound, Topping A90 is more transparent, has sharper edges around the sound. I think the A90 is nice if you can take just a bit of the edge off it and add a touch more warmth and body. All this gear sounds great - I think it comes down to your preferences in the end.
 
Nov 24, 2020 at 10:33 AM Post #180 of 316
Hi all, just wanted to share my impressions of the Musician Pegasus. I ordered a black one from Amazon based on Sandu's review. I also own a RME ADI-2 and the Denafrips Ares II. I'm not conversant in all the engineering talk, so my impression is purely based on what I feel when I compared these three DACS. ADI-2 is very clean and resolving and I love the features of the DAC like the live graphs and stuff. I think if you know what you are doing, you can tweak this day to sound similar to many others out there. Extremely versatile and has a decent HPA built in. When I got my Ares II, I was blown away. I definitely prefer the sound of the Ares II. I was wondering if I would notice the differences between an R2R and the ADI-2. I was kinda skeptical, but I did! Most notably the sound stage is more expansive, the instrument separation is way better. Those traits plus the warm, smooth more full bodied sound made me prefer it. It is definitely not as resolving as the ADI-2. Now the Pegasus, it cost me, almost double of the ADI-2. All those rumour and reports scared me a bit - was worried I was paying more for an Ares II in a bigger funny looking chassis. I swapped out the Ares II and in the Pegasus for a while. Did not A/B the 2 but my casual impression was it sounded the same. Same driver, same great expanded sound stage and instrument separation etc. I was kind of meh.... I prefer the looks and form factor of Ares II with rest of my stack than the Pegasus. However, recently I did some spring cleaning, trying to simplify all my gear and sell a bunch of stuff. Finally decided to do more A/B testing between the two so I could decide which one to keep and which to sell. Turns out I should have done the more serious A/B before. When I compared the 2 back and forth, I found the Pegasus retained all the great qualities of the Ares II but was more resolving and clear. Kinda of like the best qualities of ADI-2 sounds with the Ares II. I definitely pick the Pegasus as my favourite DAC in my collection now.

Just for your info - I have Pegasus -> Topping A90 -> HifiMan Susvara. I pump the Pegasus -> Topping A90 also to a Heaven 11 Billie Amp connected to Buchardt S400s. Sounds awesome - really recommend the S400s. People say its not good for desktop/nearfield, but I disagree. They have great imaging and product nice instrument separation and full bodied sound with good low end. I prefer them over my Harbeth Anniversary Limited Edition P3ESRs.

Also, I own a Bakoon Amp 13-R, THX 789 and lots of other I have given away or sold off to get to where I am now. Despite the huge price disparity - I also prefer the sound of the Topping A90 to the Bakoon. Bakoon has a warmer more rounded sound, Topping A90 is more transparent, has sharper edges around the sound. I think the A90 is nice if you can take just a bit of the edge off it and add a touch more warmth and body. All this gear sounds great - I think it comes down to your preferences in the end.

Awesome, thanks for your feedback. I am also curious how you like the Topping A90 vs. THX 789 :beerchug:
 

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