DDC - Digital USB interfaces - Xmos or Amanero Combo384 based - Raspberry Pi - HifiBerry DAC+ Pro - reviews, comparison, modifications and USB-Audio in general

[Caper]

   
 
 
 
maybe that ddc on ebay is good, but I don't know. It just looks cheaply made.
 
 
the crystek 957's are good, and the NDK's are even better  
 
no joke. Bass is tighter and more textured. I love bass so the NDK's really impressed me. There isn't a better deal than NDK's too! only around 10each approx. something like that anyways.
 
BUT, they are a pain to solder unless you have the right tools. which I spent a ton of money on all the right gear to do the job
 
 
I'm about to start taking orders for NDK's on dip14 boards! haha. I have extra boards, extra crystals etc...but don't want to work for free either. I may consider building them with good tight murata 1% bypass caps.  I have a bunch of Ian's adapter boards from DIYboard and also my fav boards are from RHEA. and RHEA actually makes prebuilt crystek 957 boards! but no bypass caps. Personally I think it's better to run a bypass cap than not. as most tcxo's are close enough to their power supply to make a diff. almost all DDC's are made that way. <shrug>
 
but consider the intona. it's not hype.  I've tested in on 4-5 diff peoples setups and all of them were blown away with the results. It's a fantastic piece of gear to own.Think of it as the holy grail for making USB function as though it should have this whole time.  The thing manufacturers leave out is the critical plagued issue of usb's packet noise issue of 8khz spikes. It's truly bad for about 99% of usb implementations for audio. The intona may very well have the lowest packet noise of any device.. around -142dB for 8khz noise. compared to the average of -110dB or a fancy fiber optic usb cable can bring the noise down to around -118dB but not even close to what the intona does.
 
try it yourself though. But keep an open mind.
 
-T
 
I was skeptical and didn't hear a HUGE difference in my system considering how damn clean my power is. I did hear it after listening long enough and found the top end to clearly improve a bit.  Not night and day as it was for most of my friends setups. Their dirty ass laptops were like high performance sources with the intona attached. some of them barely recognized their dac! no joke!
 
 
ps, I forgot to mention that that DDC on ebay has a much lower grade usb clock than the Breeze DUU8.... and possibly the same usb clock that is currently in his Hegel usb module.
that's the first thing I noticed.
 
There are several components that are downgraded from the DUU8 with that ebay ddc. It's great it's DC powered though.  But modding the USB clock would be ideal. that happens to be one of the cheaper ones available. Maybe i'm a clock snob. but i've heard enough ddc's to kinda get a really darn good idea of what to expect based on what components are used.
 
at least they chose murata da101c's for the output of the coax too.
 
but I can't tell from the photos if they are using C0G cap for the output. the lighting is tough to tell if it's grey or tan. meh. "maybe grey?"
 
anyhow, questionable.
 
 
BUT it does use a great regulator...just found this out... the ADP150 @ 9uV noise.... excellent. not as great as the pro3a of course...but not too shabby.
 
 
pair this with a good lps and might be sounding pretty good.
 
just wish the usb clock wasn't so el cheapo

 
Thanks for all info!
As I am a total rookie about this modding and have no solder experience, how hard is it to switch the clock?
Maybe I can find one that can help me out if I just buy the stuff I need.
 
Thanks!

 

[bimmer100]

Thanks for all info!
As I am a total rookie about this modding and have no solder experience, how hard is it to switch the clock?
Maybe I can find one that can help me out if I just buy the stuff I need.

Thanks!

No problem. Glad you found some of my post to be useful or informative.

I recommend the intona over any device of its kind. Which are USB cleaners, reclocker , regen, isolators for power. But this intona is one of about 2 or three products that does isolation of the USB data. It uses two Spartan fpga' to break down and rebuild the data from the dirty to clean side.it's a great piece of gear to own if you use USB at all. Simply put, it will give you the most out of your USB.
I have owned everything you can imagine from the Uptone regen, jitterbug, wyrd, etc etc. sold all of them except r wyrd, which is what my wife uses on her setup.
her psu in the computer had a noisy 5v USB line that is around 15mV-20mV
My psu is about 7-9mV and too noisey for me. That's why I got the dedicated Paul Hynes lps for the Paul pang ocxo v3 usb3.0 card... I could of saved a grip of money if I just got the intona. As it lets regular USB ports sound 98-99% as good as with the ppa3 ocxo and Hynes lps. Kinda frustrating. But true.
So that's why I recommend it check it out! The guts are impressive too.

 

[Caper]

Ok, guess the Intona will be on my purchase list.
I am not that in to Hi-Fi actually but since I heard the difference between coax and USB on my Hegel I cant just let it be.
 
I have a friend that had Hi-Fi as interest all his life but he is still uses analog stuff and just shake his head when I went the digital road.
It would be fun to make him admit my little digital system sounds ok.
 
Thanks!

 

[Caper]

   
I'm willing to bet that Breeze listed in the Ebay link is better than DU-U8 with the right power. Have you listened to either one of these? The DU-U8's flaw is the soundstage lacks depth due to compression most likely from the AC power supply (not good!). The problem with the cheaper DC model is it only runs on USB power (no external jack) so in Capers' case he will feeding the DDC with a motherboard port's +5V UNLESS he uses the AQVOX (or dual headed cable). I use to have an AQVOX and it will make an enormous improvement in this case. I can't speak about the Itona b/c I haven't paid much attention to it.
 
As far as the clocks are concerned I think this will trivial be compared to the +5V power issue. I gave my Breeze DU-U8 a very good listen before I upgraded to Crysteks, and I asked myself If I really wanted to swap them out. The gold TXCO clocks sound excellent, but the the Crysteks are indeed even better.

I do have one Aqvox at home and hoping the ddc I ordered will be fine powered by it.
That´s why I ordered just that ddc.
If not, propably buy the Intona.
 
Thanks for all your inputs!

 

[Caper]

Edited because of a lot off topic questions that I will move to the right part of this forum.
 
I think everything will be fine when my spdif converter arrives.
Just found this article about my amp: http://blog.son-video.com/en/2014/03/review-hegel-h80-dac-stereo-amplifier/
Think Hegels DAC is pretty nice as long as you dont use USB input.
 
Will let you know my impression when the ddc arrives.
 
Thank you all!

 

[robertsong]

  Edited because of a lot off topic questions that I will move to the right part of this forum.
 
I think everything will be fine when my spdif converter arrives.
Just found this article about my amp: http://blog.son-video.com/en/2014/03/review-hegel-h80-dac-stereo-amplifier/
Think Hegels DAC is pretty nice as long as you dont use USB input.
 
Will let you know my impression when the ddc arrives.
 
Thank you all!

 
 
Yup, you already said so when you tried that DVD player. Give the DDC a good 24 hours of break-in before making an initial opinion. I think the Hegel's DAC is just fine.
 
And just to be sure you understand, it's not just the Hegel's USB input that is poor. 90% of the DAC's out there can benefit from an external USB (DDC). Manufacturers tend to skimp on this to cut costs. The USB module accounts for roughly half the sound quality. Most people do not understand this.

 

[Caper]

Yeah, after you gave me your inputs on all this I fully understand it.
I am no Hi-Fi guy but bought my first computer 1989 (Compaq 286 Deskpro) and since then been pretty updated in the computer world.
That´s why I now also try to integrate a good sounding Hi-Fi system to my htpc.
 
Thanks!

 

[abartels]

This evening I finished initial setup RPI2b + DAC+Pro over I2S with PiCoreplayer, connected to my DAC.
 
All connected as is, stock, no mods, power from rpi with 16000mAh battery.
 
First impression:
 
Listening fatigue, and not as detailed as I am used to.
 
Will let it burn-in for a few days and report back.
 
 
Regards,
Alex

 

[Sonic Defender]

This isn't meant as a challenge at all, I'm just really unsure of things. Are people actually able to hear differences in clocks? What mechanisms allow our brain to be that sensitive to miniscule differences? I know it sounds like I'm ripping people, and I'm not, I'm just trying to understand what aspects of a clock difference don't exist in the domain of extremely, extremely small differences in oscillation. I've been trying to research the science of clocks and not finding much besides technical specifications that don't attempt to connect things with audibility. Any information would be really helpful as I find this topic really fascinating. I'm trying to decide if it is worth learning how to do my own modifications, but I'm more an objective than subjective kind of listener in the end. Thanks in advance.

 

[robertsong]

  This isn't meant as a challenge at all, I'm just really unsure of things. Are people actually able to hear differences in clocks? What mechanisms allow our brain to be that sensitive to miniscule differences? I know it sounds like I'm ripping people, and I'm not, I'm just trying to understand what aspects of a clock difference don't exist in the domain of extremely, extremely small differences in oscillation. I've been trying to research the science of clocks and not finding much besides technical specifications that don't attempt to connect things with audibility. Any information would be really helpful as I find this topic really fascinating. I'm trying to decide if it is worth learning how to do my own modifications, but I'm more an objective than subjective kind of listener in the end. Thanks in advance.

 
 
Just throwing out a guess here, but I don't think messing with clocks is worth it (for most people). What are to trying to accomplish? What sort of things have you tried? What has worked for you, and what hasn't?

 

[Sonic Defender]

   
 
Just throwing out a guess here, but I don't think messing with clocks is worth it (for most people). What are to trying to accomplish? What sort of things have you tried? What has worked for you, and what hasn't?

Actually I'm just considering the whole idea of modding as a hobby, up to now I haven't done anything. I'm just trying to figure out if all of this talk of clocks making a difference is really just people who love to tinker and don't really care if there is evidence or not that there is audible (testable by blind listening confirmation) improvement. If that is the case I wouldn't bother trying to learn the skills where clocks are concerned, I am interested in changes that have been proven by blind listening tests to make audible differences. Those type of tweaks are worth the time and effort for me. I also get that a large number of DIY advocates simply love doing the work and worrying about evidence isn't what drives them, and that is perfectly fine and equally valid.

 

[robertsong]

No, I can't recommend "modding as a hobby". Not the best place to start. I would suggest looking into some lower priced build kits instead.
 
I've had lots of soldering experience in building/modding guitar amplifiers. Otherwise I wouldn't have attempted any DDC mods. I'm certain I would seriously screwed something up.
 
Then again, if you don't mind taking the risk, and potentially paying for a DDC twice or three times, then why not go for it?

 

[robertsong]

I'm just trying to figure out if all of this talk of clocks making a difference is really just people who love to tinker and don't really care if there is evidence or not that there is audible (testable by blind listening confirmation) improvement. If that is the case I wouldn't bother trying to learn the skills where clocks are concerned, I am interested in changes that have been proven by blind listening tests to make audible differences. Those type of tweaks are worth the time and effort for me. I also get that a large number of DIY advocates simply love doing the work and worrying about evidence isn't what drives them, and that is perfectly fine and equally valid.

 
 
This sort of topic (blind testing) is actually off limits according to the forum rules.
 
Oh nevermind, that was a different forum: "Due to the flame wars that erupt as a result, this, and the other forums (other than the Sound Science forum), are DBT and ABX-free zones and posts about either will be moved or deleted. See Jude's original post on the matter."
 
In my opinon blind/DBT tests are silly. If a difference is that subtle it's not worth fretting over. I definitely do not think the topic of "clocks" is subtle enough to require blind tests. My own findings, of course.

 

[Sonic Defender]

   
 
This sort of topic (blind testing) is actually off limits according to the forum rules.
 
Oh nevermind, that was a different forum: "Due to the flame wars that erupt as a result, this, and the other forums (other than the Sound Science forum), are DBT and ABX-free zones and posts about either will be moved or deleted. See Jude's original post on the matter."
 
In my opinon blind/DBT tests are silly. If a difference is that subtle it's not worth fretting over. I definitely do not think the topic of "clocks" is subtle enough to require blind tests. My own findings, of course.

Yes, I sometimes forget how sensitive an issue that is for some people, my apology as flame wars are really tiring things for sure. Thanks for your thoughts on that, I guess that looking at some kits is actually a good way to get my feet wet. Eventually I would like to turn it into a hobby. Cheers.

 

[bimmer100]

This isn't meant as a challenge at all, I'm just really unsure of things. Are people actually able to hear differences in clocks? What mechanisms allow our brain to be that sensitive to miniscule differences? I know it sounds like I'm ripping people, and I'm not, I'm just trying to understand what aspects of a clock difference don't exist in the domain of extremely, extremely small differences in oscillation. I've been trying to research the science of clocks and not finding much besides technical specifications that don't attempt to connect things with audibility. Any information would be really helpful as I find this topic really fascinating. I'm trying to decide if it is worth learning how to do my own modifications, but I'm more an objective than subjective kind of listener in the end. Thanks in advance.

Clocks will all sound pretty much the same if you your power source is crap. If the source is ultra clean the the higher performance clocks will sound audibly better.
Otherwise don't waste your time and money.