[Andrewteee]

Aurender has a very expensive clock and a new less expensive one too. Their materials imply they are used in dCS systems.

Were I to consider it I’d definitely look into both dCS and Aurender clocks and compatibility.

 

[Andrewteee]

I found the same, the source matters a lot. Power is crucial too. Adding a JMF PCD-102 filter to the system was a jaw dropper. It easily eclipsed the Ansuz d-tc power distributor I had before that. Might be another upgrade avenue to explore as well.

dCS clocking paired with the N20 might be an issue. When I had an N20 for auditioning at home it did not automatically switch sample rates. Which made the combination too cumbersome for my use case.

I’ll look into the JMF. It does not seem to be widely available in the US. This is a type of device that I’ve continued to defer till later.

 

[turbofeet]

I posted this in another forum and thought it could be informative here on Head-Fi too. I have not tried the Ferrum stack with the Aurender yet because that would require moving around components, but I suspect there could be an improvement in SQ there too. Because my hunch is the Nucleus+ is holding things back in comparison to the Aurender.

I know a lot of Head-Fi folks are interested in the Bartok HPA and I've read many comments from some who believe the Bartok HPA holds it back, but my experience implies deeper potential depending on the source. I can't understand why that would make a big difference with the HPA, but I can't untangle source to Bartok to headphone amp to headphones as outlined below. The Bartok HPA is really delivering the goods now...

I had an interesting experience last night (and confirmed today).

On a whim, I decided to listen to the headphone output of the Bartok, which I have not done in months, and compare it to my Ferrum stack (new Wandla DAC, Oor amp and Hypsos power supplies). I was comparing Roon to Roon (ethernet on the Bartok, USB on the Wandla). Sounded fine, but reinforced why I prefer the Ferrum Oor for headphone listening. The Bartok DAC may be better, but the HPA was holding it back. And the Ferrum system sounded really, really good together.

Then I switched over to the Aurender AES/EBU input on the Bartok playing through the Aurender app and OMG!

There was an immediate and dramatic improvement in the Bartok headphone capabilities. It jumped ahead of the Ferrum stack by a margin. It sounded wonderful on the Meze Elite and really kicked the DCA Stealth into gear! Gave me that thrill of rediscovering music I love.

This was the first time I had listened to the Bartok HPA with the Aurender (N20). I knew there was an improvement playing through my two channel speaker system, but the improvement was even more clear and significant through the HPA (probably more direct).

This is making the Bartok a whole new DAC experience and now I’m considering the APEX upgrade, after hearing the potential, and keeping in mind the simplicity of a more streamlined system. I still have to think about it, given the hefty cost as a % of the original cost of the Bartok, but I’m closer to a decision, as an ongoing investment in the Bartok. Throw in a clock too, why don’t you.

Oh my, source matters! I’ve been Roon based for so long, never really giving thought to anything different. I had purchased the Aurender for GAS reasons and to serve as an AES/EBU source for the Wandla DAC. But I started by trying it in the two channel system – the improvement was clear, so there it has remained. I was using the Roon Nucleus+ with the Wandla.

Clearly, a lot of credit goes to the Aurender, but it also demonstrates that the Bartok can scale with the source to further improve SQ. And it implies the Bartok HPA has more potential that some people think, depending on the source.

I was not expecting this, but there it is. Dang! What other potential lies undiscovered?!?

Interesting.

For Roon I recently heard the Grimm MU1 with the Dave on DAC duties and it was incredible. I suspect that the MU1 would also be amazing on the Bartok (using the Bartok purely as a DAC) but I didn't get a chance to test it.

The beauty of that combination is that the Grimm streamer and clock uses Roon which is my preference from a usability point of view.

Has anyone here tried the MU1 with the Bartok?

I do not use the Bartok headphone out any more but I found it very nice with the Meze Empyreans. With the Elite's it was OK but it wasn't getting the best out of them.

 

[572217]

I’ll look into the JMF. It does not seem to be widely available in the US. This is a type of device that I’ve continued to defer till later.

JMF is a lesser known and accomplished firm. I looked, the distributor for the US is Audio Skies in LA and they will refer you to your closest retailer.

I have no engineering or scientific knowledge in audio. However, I could verify with experiments that power really is the foundation of the system. A digital system pretty much does little else than transform data and power into music. Finding really good filters is not so easy. Putting the JMF in was like getting a much larger water tap out of which the water / music is flowing. Without any real drawbacks.

 

[Betzy]

Afaik dCS recommends XLR over RCA. Funnily enough I got rid of my Crystal Cable (Piccolo diamond though) RCA in favor of some cheap Van Damme Starquad cables, as well as clock cables and...they sound considerably better. So sticking with them for now.

 

[TheR0v3r]

I have to say, I recently tried the Nucleus and Innuos Zen, expecting the servers not to make a difference. Because why would they? To my surprise, Nucleus sounded clearly better than my gaming pc as a server/client. the Innuos even better on some tracks, but worse on others.
Hot take : The only logical conclusion for me is that Roon is not bit perfect, unless ran on Nucleus. I assume this is the trick up their sleeve, because it sounded identical to my gaming pc, just less "grainy". I think Innuos , as well is also CLEARLY doing EQ. I found it louder than Nucleus to begin with, and accentuating different parts of the FR.
While i'm not disputing it might be more pleasant in some cases, it's exactly the kind of tomfoolery i'm not spending my money on, and am bothered by the intent itself. There's nothing "better", because there's no improving a standard that is functioning properly. There's just mixing and matching distortion. As with a lot of cables , power stuff, etc. This is why I went with dCS in the first place, was sick of improving Chord's gear for more money than the gear itself.
That said. i've kept my Isotek Aquarius and Genesis one regenerator for the clock, as it makes a considerable difference in my current place.

Agree on almost all points, my experience mirrors yours. I’m also becoming more and more sceptical of “power stuff”…

Anyway, what does your source chain look like in front of the DAC?

 

[chesebert]

I posted this in another forum and thought it could be informative here on Head-Fi too. I have not tried the Ferrum stack with the Aurender yet because that would require moving around components, but I suspect there could be an improvement in SQ there too. Because my hunch is the Nucleus+ is holding things back in comparison to the Aurender.

I know a lot of Head-Fi folks are interested in the Bartok HPA and I've read many comments from some who believe the Bartok HPA holds it back, but my experience implies deeper potential depending on the source. I can't understand why that would make a big difference with the HPA, but I can't untangle source to Bartok to headphone amp to headphones as outlined below. The Bartok HPA is really delivering the goods now...

I had an interesting experience last night (and confirmed today).

On a whim, I decided to listen to the headphone output of the Bartok, which I have not done in months, and compare it to my Ferrum stack (new Wandla DAC, Oor amp and Hypsos power supplies). I was comparing Roon to Roon (ethernet on the Bartok, USB on the Wandla). Sounded fine, but reinforced why I prefer the Ferrum Oor for headphone listening. The Bartok DAC may be better, but the HPA was holding it back. And the Ferrum system sounded really, really good together.

Then I switched over to the Aurender AES/EBU input on the Bartok playing through the Aurender app and OMG!

There was an immediate and dramatic improvement in the Bartok headphone capabilities. It jumped ahead of the Ferrum stack by a margin. It sounded wonderful on the Meze Elite and really kicked the DCA Stealth into gear! Gave me that thrill of rediscovering music I love.

This was the first time I had listened to the Bartok HPA with the Aurender (N20). I knew there was an improvement playing through my two channel speaker system, but the improvement was even more clear and significant through the HPA (probably more direct).

This is making the Bartok a whole new DAC experience and now I’m considering the APEX upgrade, after hearing the potential, and keeping in mind the simplicity of a more streamlined system. I still have to think about it, given the hefty cost as a % of the original cost of the Bartok, but I’m closer to a decision, as an ongoing investment in the Bartok. Throw in a clock too, why don’t you.

Oh my, source matters! I’ve been Roon based for so long, never really giving thought to anything different. I had purchased the Aurender for GAS reasons and to serve as an AES/EBU source for the Wandla DAC. But I started by trying it in the two channel system – the improvement was clear, so there it has remained. I was using the Roon Nucleus+ with the Wandla.

Clearly, a lot of credit goes to the Aurender, but it also demonstrates that the Bartok can scale with the source to further improve SQ. And it implies the Bartok HPA has more potential that some people think, depending on the source.

I was not expecting this, but there it is. Dang! What other potential lies undiscovered?!?

All dacs benefit from a good front end that’s not USB based. Most people judge dacs based on USB input connected to their computer, which is absolutely one of the worst digital inputs IRL. I have connected Topping to my Emm Labs front end via AES and Topping sounded very good - significantly better than I had originally expected. Source (transport + dac) is absolutely the most important part of a headphone rig IMHO all things considered.

 

[chesebert]

Agree on almost all points, my experience mirrors yours. I’m also becoming more and more sceptical of “power stuff”…

Anyway, what does your source chain look like in front of the DAC?

Second this. Buy the better gear in the first place and don‘t bother with tweaks until you have maxed out your gear - for 2 channel, you need to buy tweaks to control vibrations and room reflections.

 

[Articnoise]

Source (transport + dac) is absolutely the most important part of a headphone rig IMHO all things considered.

All parts of a headphone system is of equal importance, at least for high end systems. For a low and mid fi system finding the "right" transducer (headphone/speakers) is the most important, IMO.

 

[chesebert]

All parts of a headphone system is of equal importance, at least for high end systems. For a low and mid fi system finding the "right" transducer (headphone/speakers) is the most important, IMO.

Take a Rossini Apex home demo and let me know if you still feel the same.

 

[TheMiddleSky]

I posted this in another forum and thought it could be informative here on Head-Fi too. I have not tried the Ferrum stack with the Aurender yet because that would require moving around components, but I suspect there could be an improvement in SQ there too. Because my hunch is the Nucleus+ is holding things back in comparison to the Aurender.

I know a lot of Head-Fi folks are interested in the Bartok HPA and I've read many comments from some who believe the Bartok HPA holds it back, but my experience implies deeper potential depending on the source. I can't understand why that would make a big difference with the HPA, but I can't untangle source to Bartok to headphone amp to headphones as outlined below. The Bartok HPA is really delivering the goods now...

I had an interesting experience last night (and confirmed today).

On a whim, I decided to listen to the headphone output of the Bartok, which I have not done in months, and compare it to my Ferrum stack (new Wandla DAC, Oor amp and Hypsos power supplies). I was comparing Roon to Roon (ethernet on the Bartok, USB on the Wandla). Sounded fine, but reinforced why I prefer the Ferrum Oor for headphone listening. The Bartok DAC may be better, but the HPA was holding it back. And the Ferrum system sounded really, really good together.

Then I switched over to the Aurender AES/EBU input on the Bartok playing through the Aurender app and OMG!

There was an immediate and dramatic improvement in the Bartok headphone capabilities. It jumped ahead of the Ferrum stack by a margin. It sounded wonderful on the Meze Elite and really kicked the DCA Stealth into gear! Gave me that thrill of rediscovering music I love.

This was the first time I had listened to the Bartok HPA with the Aurender (N20). I knew there was an improvement playing through my two channel speaker system, but the improvement was even more clear and significant through the HPA (probably more direct).

This is making the Bartok a whole new DAC experience and now I’m considering the APEX upgrade, after hearing the potential, and keeping in mind the simplicity of a more streamlined system. I still have to think about it, given the hefty cost as a % of the original cost of the Bartok, but I’m closer to a decision, as an ongoing investment in the Bartok. Throw in a clock too, why don’t you.

Oh my, source matters! I’ve been Roon based for so long, never really giving thought to anything different. I had purchased the Aurender for GAS reasons and to serve as an AES/EBU source for the Wandla DAC. But I started by trying it in the two channel system – the improvement was clear, so there it has remained. I was using the Roon Nucleus+ with the Wandla.

Clearly, a lot of credit goes to the Aurender, but it also demonstrates that the Bartok can scale with the source to further improve SQ. And it implies the Bartok HPA has more potential that some people think, depending on the source.

I was not expecting this, but there it is. Dang! What other potential lies undiscovered?!?

For the cost of Apex upgrade ($9000), you also can buy separate amp that truly above the quality compared to Bartok internal amp. When I tried DCS Lina Stacks and Bartok Apex side by side, and make a "mix max" combination between them, Bartok Apex as DAC + Lina Amp is a (very) clear set up in sound compared to Bartok Apex as DAC + Amp.

Density, leading line definition, weight notes, soundstage width/depth, speed, all improved with Lina Amp.

I agree that digital transport is an important factor as well.

All parts of a headphone system is of equal importance, at least for high end systems. For a low and mid fi system finding the "right" transducer (headphone/speakers) is the most important, IMO.

x2

 

[simorag]

After a few months of ownership, the weigthy sound presentation of the Rossini Apex / Clock combo has eventually sank in my ear-brain, and I now thoroughly enjoy its massive scale and organic sound delivery.

In comparison with my previous Chord setup, I find that the Valkyria has especially benefited by the new pairing, its hefty and forceful, energy-packed, character being now backed by a more expansive sonic landscape, a theatrical 3D atmospheric setting where - for example - full blown orchestral works are stupendously immersive. In some cases I activate the crossfeed to further improve the layering / depth (given up on Expanse), like in the two recordings below.

Timbre and color saturation lay in a nice sweetspot between clear / nuanced vs. euphoric, focused, emotionally charged, and I can further fine tune around it by rolling my AIC-10 tube if I so desire - even just for a change of flavor. Vocals, strings have that captivating rich tone / overtone structure, and detail immediacy which we subconsciously absorb when listening to these sounds live.

Rythmic drive and dynamics remind a high-power luxury sport car mountain road experience, plenty of hidden strength at your disposal, a sense of plushness embraces even the most dramatic pace changes, brisk attacks and articulated, crisp pulsations of sound are smoothed instead of being conveyed in a pristine, raw, ruthless fashion.

Among many talents, I am especially carried away by how cello and double bass are reproduced, together with piano (and this is a must, given my musical preferences) and brass instruments, for which lifelike dynamics, fullness of tone and a stentoreous depiction of their varied metallic nature often take me by surprise, with a rush of hubris in both classical and jazz ensembles.

Definitely happy with my purchase so far.

 

[llamaluv]

So, first the first time in 2+ years, I'm giving the TOSLINK connection a serious listen.

Anyone else tried this?

 

[turbofeet]

So, first the first time in 2+ years, I'm giving the TOSLINK connection a serious listen.

Anyone else tried this?

I have not but I still have my eyes on a Grimm MU1 to feed the Bartok that way or via AES.

Yesterday I swaped in an English Electric 8 switch and tested Qobuz direct from the mosaic app. My Roon core is in another room on another switch which is why I didn't use that to test. Easy to A/B as well.

I work in IT so was very skeptical but it was quite cheap on ebay so I thought why not.

Controversial I know but it sounds clearly better to me. Slightly less digital is the best way I can describe it. YMMV.

 

[chesebert]

So, first the first time in 2+ years, I'm giving the TOSLINK connection a serious listen.

Anyone else tried this?

Make sure you disconnect all other inputs and use only optical. I am switching all my dacs to either toslink or fiber optical. I think modern dacs have pretty much solved jitter issue with buffered input and output and ground noise has now become a bigger issue.

good luck.