[ThanatosVI]

Well it's the same upgrade as the Vivaldi and Rossini essentially. So it is fair, just Not sure how much sense it makes for a Bartok owner.

The headamp version is a bit of a joke Imo, as even the Oor is considerably better than the Lina amp for 10k. Buy dCS dacs, not amps

Without headamp it's still 22.500€ over here, similarly overpriced imo

 

[TheMiddleSky]

Indulging myself with some fine tuning over the last weeks ...

These Crystal Cables RCA are very special. Hard to resist the usual audiophile hyperbolic descriptors, let's just say that they have a very audible impact

Next in line will be the Transparent XL BNC for the clock vs. my current Audioquest Diamond. The long Easter weekend looks intriguingly busy

​

Haven't tried their latest offering, but I still have Dreamline RCA, and still sound like a charm.

Afaik dCS recommends XLR over RCA. Funnily enough I got rid of my Crystal Cable (Piccolo diamond though) RCA in favor of some cheap Van Damme Starquad cables, as well as clock cables and...they sound considerably better. So sticking with them for now.

Piccolo is quite thin and bright sounding. I also don't like this cable at all.

 

[llamaluv]

Yeah the initial Bartok price Was in line with its performance, everything on top since then is just nuts

With headamp it costs now 25.500€ in germany. The Apex upgrade alone 9.900€

Agreed. I'm a Bartok owner and bought mine new a couple years ago. I like it a lot (of course) (and especially with speakers), but the value proposition even back then was already a stretch, IMO. Their prices now on their "lowest-tier" products are just gross.

 

[notofthisworld]

If one uses the Bartok primarily as an all in one solution for headphones, would there be much benefit for the apex upgrade?

 

[adrianm]

If one uses the Bartok primarily as an all in one solution for headphones, would there be much benefit for the apex upgrade?

Yes. Contrary to some opinions, I'd say it's easier to hear dac changes on headphones than speakers, because you take the room out of the equation.

 

[pippen99]

I speak from experience having the Apex upgrade to my Rossini. As someone pointed out earlier the upgrade is the same hardware whether Bartok, Rossini or Vivaldi. The upgrade is significant and very noticeable.

 

[deuter]

I speak from experience having the Apex upgrade to my Rossini. As someone pointed out earlier the upgrade is the same hardware whether Bartok, Rossini or Vivaldi. The upgrade is significant and very noticeable.

So its a hardware upgrade or software only?

 

[572217]

If one uses the Bartok primarily as an all in one solution for headphones, would there be much benefit for the apex upgrade?

If you head over to the dCS community forum you find some people who have compared Bartók with and without Apex. One of them pretty clearly stated for Bartók it is not worth it.

Rossini and Vivaldi owners in contrast report gains worth the money.

This hardware Apex upgrade costs the same for all three models as it exchanges the same components.

I am not going to upgrade my Bartók but my Vivaldi for sure.

 

[pippen99]

The Apex upgrade is a hardware upgrade solely. The RingDac is replace with a new RingDac. Ther is no soft ware involved. That is why the unit must physically be sent to the dealer or the authorized service center.

 

[buzzlulu]

If you head over to the dCS community forum you find some people who have compared Bartók with and without Apex. One of them pretty clearly stated for Bartók it is not worth it.

I think no one on the dCS forum is doubting the sonic benefits of the upgrade. Comments have more to deal with the price/value and total investment one would then have with the Bartok.

As someone who owned the Bartok when it was first released (and then rapidly traded it back for Rossini) for the dollars involved I would look to purchase a Rossini on the second hand market.

 

[buzzlulu]

If one uses the Bartok primarily as an all in one solution for headphones, would there be much benefit for the apex upgrade?

It depends which version of Bartok you have. If it is the one with the built in headphone amp than, imho, no as the internal amp is holding the Bartok back.

PS for transparency I owned the Bartok HA and currently own a Rossini - which was then upgraded to APEX

 

[572217]

I think no one on the dCS forum is doubting the sonic benefits of the upgrade. Comments have more to deal with the price/value and total investment one would then have with the Bartok.

As someone who owned the Bartok when it was first released (and then rapidly traded it back for Rossini) for the dollars involved I would look to purchase a Rossini on the second hand market.

This is the post I am referring to:

https://dcs.community/t/bartok-2-0-bartok-apex-test-convincing-enough/5353

 

[572217]

I was really happy with my Bartók system in its then current state – Innuos Statement – Vivaldi Clock – Bartók non-Apex – headamp GSX mk2 - Focal Utopia – Ansuz Titanium Rack – Ansuz dtc power.

When I upgraded to Vivaldi the reaction was – and this is supposed it? Plus I was unhappy listening. It took a lot of time tweaking and other upgrades to get to a new satisfactory state. Mostly cables, power conditioning and upstream tweaks, but also a switch to Riviera AIC-10 and DCA Stealth.

Now I can confidently walk into any 2-channel dealer or audio show room and say, thanks but no thanks. Plus enjoy myself greatly.

Long story short, as one moves up the ladder with dCS gear, system building becomes ever more important. And it costs quite a bit of money beside the gear itself.

 

[turbofeet]

I was really happy with my Bartók system in its then current state – Innuos Statement – Vivaldi Clock – Bartók non-Apex – headamp GSX mk2 - Focal Utopia – Ansuz Titanium Rack – Ansuz dtc power.

When I upgraded to Vivaldi the reaction was – and this is supposed it? Plus I was unhappy listening. It took a lot of time tweaking and other upgrades to get to a new satisfactory state. Mostly cables, power conditioning and upstream tweaks, but also a switch to Riviera AIC-10 and DCA Stealth.

Now I can confidently walk into any 2-channel dealer or audio show room and say, thanks but no thanks. Plus enjoy myself greatly.

Long story short, as one moves up the ladder with dCS gear, system building becomes ever more important. And it costs quite a bit of money beside the gear itself.

Yes I love mine as well - it's superb.

On Friday I will listen to the Tambaqui and also a Dave (out of a Grimm MU1) just to see how they sound but it's just out of curiosity really. It's so the fellow that works at the store can hear some of my tubes as it saves him buying blind.

I was interested in the Tambaqui as I find the Bartok a bit flat sometimes with 80s music but that's more the recording than the Bartok itself. It's just showing you what's in the recording. Feed it good material and it's sublime. I just want to see how the Tambaqui presents the music as a stand alone DAC and how this compares to the Bartok.

I really hope the Grimm isn't as good as it has been described as I don't have £12k lying around. I suppose I could sell a kidney?

Regarding the price - I agree it's ridiculous. The 2.0 Firmware was such an improvement (containing code designed for Rossini and Vivaldi) that's probably worth another £1k and general price increases maybe another £1k but to go from about £10k to £17k is absolutely ridiculous.

You could argue that the 2.0 upgrade should have been an expected improvement given the nature of FGPAs as they can be re-programmed. Just a free Firmware update - not also resulting in a price increase.

 

[ThanatosVI]

I was really happy with my Bartók system in its then current state – Innuos Statement – Vivaldi Clock – Bartók non-Apex – headamp GSX mk2 - Focal Utopia – Ansuz Titanium Rack – Ansuz dtc power.

When I upgraded to Vivaldi the reaction was – and this is supposed it? Plus I was unhappy listening. It took a lot of time tweaking and other upgrades to get to a new satisfactory state. Mostly cables, power conditioning and upstream tweaks, but also a switch to Riviera AIC-10 and DCA Stealth.

Now I can confidently walk into any 2-channel dealer or audio show room and say, thanks but no thanks. Plus enjoy myself greatly.

Long story short, as one moves up the ladder with dCS gear, system building becomes ever more important. And it costs quite a bit of money beside the gear itself.

So you used a 24.500€ Vivaldi clock with the non Apex Bartok?

Was the benefit worth it over the Lina or Rossini clocks?