[vorlon1]

I bought one of these from Ken at audiolineout and got it last week. I was extremely disappointed in the sound. The treble was so raw it was unlistenable. Here is an email I sent to Ken telling him the outcome after this early "trauma."

"I thought I'd send you an update on the dared amp. As you may recall, I found it almost totally unlistenable, with the K 701's it was incredibly shrill sounding. So, I ordered three sets of matched pair, low-noise screened tubes. Sovtek 12AX7LPS, Tung-Sol 12 AX7, and JJ electronic ECC803S. Well, all of these sounded 1,000,000% better than the chinese stock tubes. Night and day difference. I am using the Tung-Sol's right now and the amp sounds very good. Lots of power, very clear, no tubey fatness, but rather a very crystal clear sound that is still definitely not solid state. So, things turned out ok, but the stock tubes made the high end so raw I couldn't believe it with the 701's. An interesting sidelight was, my DT 880s sounded quite decent with the stock tubes, although better now, this thing has so much power that it really opened them up and gave them some life, although I am still listening with the 701's generally. So, this unit certainly can sound very good, but damn, it is all about the right tubes. Also, this thing is dead quiet, no hum, no hiss."

So, with the right tubes this unit sounds excellent, piano music is particularly crisp with good weight, maybe just on the bright side of neutral to my ears, but very nice, with a lot of power. Drives my old 600 ohm DT 990's easy as pie, and makes last year's DT 880s stand at attention and salute.

 

[sxr71]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vorlon1 I bought one of these from Ken at audiolineout and got it last week. I was extremely disappointed in the sound. The treble was so raw it was unlistenable. Here is an email I sent to Ken telling him the outcome after this early "trauma." "I thought I'd send you an update on the dared amp. As you may recall, I found it almost totally unlistenable, with the K 701's it was incredibly shrill sounding. So, I ordered three sets of matched pair, low-noise screened tubes. Sovtek 12AX7LPS, Tung-Sol 12 AX7, and JJ electronic ECC803S. Well, all of these sounded 1,000,000% better than the chinese stock tubes. Night and day difference. I am using the Tung-Sol's right now and the amp sounds very good. Lots of power, very clear, no tubey fatness, but rather a very crystal clear sound that is still definitely not solid state. So, things turned out ok, but the stock tubes made the high end so raw I couldn't believe it with the 701's. An interesting sidelight was, my DT 880s sounded quite decent with the stock tubes, although better now, this thing has so much power that it really opened them up and gave them some life, although I am still listening with the 701's generally. So, this unit certainly can sound very good, but damn, it is all about the right tubes. Also, this thing is dead quiet, no hum, no hiss." So, with the right tubes this unit sounds excellent, piano music is particularly crisp with good weight, maybe just on the bright side of neutral to my ears, but very nice, with a lot of power. Drives my old 600 ohm DT 990's easy as pie, and makes last year's DT 880s stand at attention and salute.

I noticed something similar with K701s also. Oddly enough it seemed to sound fine with speakers, but when I tried the amp with my K701s I noticed during a section of music with drumstick hits on the rim of the drum and some high hats (? I think that's what they are called) that I couldn't really hear the distinctive sound of the drumstick hits. It just sounded like one big shower of brightness. I almost felt like equalizing some "body" into those drumsticks it was that bad. On speakers the sound of the high hat and the drumsticks were clearly discernable.

Anyhow, thanks for the report on which tubes I should get. I think I'm going to use these more for headphones and deploy my regular amp for speakers when I get it fixed. The Dared sounds awesome with speakers, but after a while you just yearning for some better dynamics.

 

[Computersmith]

Well I thought I'd chime in on this thread. My MP5 and cables arrived from Ken, Tuesday this week. I've been burning it in and listening periodically since then. It gets about four hours on time per night and had about 17 hours on yesterday, so bear in mind these are impressions with about 30 hours of burn in time on both the amp and cable.

So far I'm impressed, this is a great price Vs performance amp. I did listen right out of the box with the stock tubes and while I don't think they sounded as horrid as has been reported. They are none the less sub par and have been relegated to emergency backup status. I purchased the upgrade kit from Ken and it was well worth the extra money. The tubes Ken sent are a significant improvement over the stock tubes. As a side not on the upgrade kit, the power cord that was included is thick enough to be considered a deadly weapon in some states

. As for the built in DAC. I have to agree with the general consensus and say that it is just OK. Using the amp via USB and built in DAC causes the sound to be kind of thin with a narrower sound stage and less detail. Also it seems to me that every frequency is rolled off in this configuration. It's also rather sibilant when using the DAC. The one thing I noticed is that the mid bass seems to be minutely more detailed when using the built in DAC but that doesn't make up for it's shortcomings.

Stocked with fresh tubes and using the line out from my iPod things get significantly better. The sound stage opens up and there is far more detail and clarity. The bass is certainly there but right now is slightly out of control. However during my listening intrusions into the burn process, I can tell that situation is improving all the time. I can see that this will be a great performer with even more hours under it's belt. It makes my 701s very happy cans even now and it performs very well with every type of music I can throw it's way. The only exception being certain very detailed orchestral pieces, there are few of these pieces where some loss of detail occurs and instruments get mixed. Now with even more layered and complex electronic recordings (DJ Krush, Paul Van Dyk, etc) this never occurs. So that may just be the lack of burn in time or a shortcoming of the amp itself, but I'll find out soon enough. Even if it's a shortcoming of the amp it would be, in my opinion a very slight if not totally insignificant shortcoming depending on just how much and what type of classical you listen to.

As an aside on the classical front, listening to Bocelli "Sacred Arias" on this rig is a pure delight. On a non classical front, DJ Krush+MP5+K701= one huge smile on my face

(p.s. where is our K701 smiley).

Some have reporting a humming in it's stock configuration. Even with the stock tubes I didn't notice any hum at all unless there was no music at all and the volume pot was turned well past 1 o'clock. With the upgraded tubes that Ken sent the hum wasn't noticeably audible until around 3 o'clock. However in either case the hum was so slight that unless there is no signal at all and the volume pot is turned all the way up it's almost totally inaudible.

Now is the sound that this little gem produces equivalent to a pair of Carver Silver Seven's attached to a set of Martin Logan's? No, not by any stretch of the imagination. However at just over 300 for the amp, and the ability to easily attain very good tubes for it. I don't think it can be beat without buying previously owned next level equipment. As such I would have no hesitations at all in recommending this amp to anyone.

My next steps are: A good set of speakers (recommendations anyone?), because this amp is crying out for a good set of speakers. Then an outboard DAC so that I can feed it directly from my Powerbook (older Powerbook so no combo optical/headphone jack). Last but certainly not least a few sets of tubes that have been recommended to me by people here who currently own the MP5.

So there you go, some views from a total bottle freak with his new baby. Be gentle I'm no where near a trained reviewer and I freely admit that while I can be far more critical in my listening, that I am not these days. The slight case of tinnitus that I have becomes unacceptably noticeable when I listen very critically. As such take anything I say here with as much salt as your cardiologist will allow

.

 

[vorlon1]

Very nice write up. The only real differences in my experience and yours is how really terrible the stock tubes sounded to me, happily fixed by the tung-sol's, and the fact that even when I turn this thing up to full volume with no signal it is dead silent, no hum, no hiss.

 

[Computersmith]

Very cool, thank you

. Yeah I noticed not much difference in experiences.

I suspect that the almost non existent hum that I can discern now will be eliminated in the future with even better tubes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vorlon1 Very nice write up. The only real differences in my experience and yours is how really terrible the stock tubes sounded to me, happily fixed by the tung-sol's, and the fact that even when I turn this thing up to full volume with no signal it is dead silent, no hum, no hiss.

 

[pilot232]

I am thinking about having my technician do some parts upgrades to my MP-5 and finding a schematic would be very helpful. Anyone have one that they would be willing to share?

I use my MP-5 both as a headphone amp with Senn 600s and as a speaker amp. I am thinking about upgrading the two resistors on the headphone output with Caddocks, provided there is enough room for them if their legs are bent 90 degrees so that they would lay parallel to the bottom plate of the amp. I am also thinking about upgrading some of the electolytic caps, especially the input caps on the Philips TDA7265 opamp. There are also a pair of dark green 1.0uf film caps near one of the 12AX7 sockets that could be upgraded but I am not sure what these caps do in this circuit.

Any suggestions or insights on these or other potential mods would be appreciated. Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[mrarroyo]

Has any of you tried 5751? They have 70% gain of a 12AX7 but are much less microphonic.

 

[pilot232]

mrarroyo,
I am using two GE 5751s in my MP-5 and they sound very nice. The GEs are considered by many to be one of the better variations of this tube. I also like the added warmth of my Mullard 12Ax7s in this amp.

I think there was some earlier discussion of 5751s in this thread so you might want to do a search to see what other folks have already said.

Cheers.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrarroyo Has any of you tried 5751? They have 70% gain of a 12AX7 but are much less microphonic.

If you read back in this thread, you'll see that myself and a few others are using this tube. Specifically I use the EHG5751.

The Electro Harmonix Gold 5751 is built with the same geometry as the 12AX7LPS. I think it sounds great and gold pins in a gold socket is the best way to go as far as metal to metal.

 

[mrarroyo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwkarth If you read back in this thread, you'll see that myself and a few others are using this tube. Specifically I use the EHG5751. The Electro Harmonix Gold 5751 is built with the same geometry as the 12AX7LPS. I think it sounds great and gold pins in a gold socket is the best way to go as far as metal to metal.

Just lazyness on not re-checking. Also old age, I forgot I had read as much.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrarroyo Just lazyness on not re-checking. Also old age, I forgot I had read as much.

No problem! This is one looooong thread!

 

[vorlon1]

Has anyone tried changing the 6E2? If so, what effect did it have? I don't recall seeing that anywhere, but maybe I missed it? Thanks.

 

[Cerith]

I checked the ALO website and it seems they are Sold Out. Does anyone know of another source to buy a US version? I have found a couple on sale on E-Bay but I believe they are the Asian models.

 

[pilot232]

I bought mine on Audiogon from this seller:

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....ube&1160526032

 

[Cerith]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilot232 I bought mine on Audiogon from this seller: http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....ube&1160526032

Thanks!