[Pastwa]

The previous post claims that having 48W headroom contributes to the dynamics and stuff, but the OL tells us that there is a limit to how much current the load / HP will draw from the amplifier, you don't push the power / current to the amplifier and have extra dynamics it draws what it needs from the amplifier.

I think that what is confusing some people here is that the incorrect statement (about 'dynamics') is answered with another also missing the point explanation (OL). The micro/macro dynamics in the music when listen via our stereo system, depend greatly on the amplifier 'responsiveness' to the current load/power requirements from the headphone and the music being played (low frequencies will draw more power). You can have an amplifier that is rated at 1000W that has poorer PRAT/Dynamics than a unit rated at 50W if the latter is quick enough to fully meet all the power peaks, due to its capacity and their quality.

 

[DarginMahkum]

I think that what is confusing some people here is that the incorrect statement (about 'dynamics') is answered with another also missing the point explanation (OL). The micro/macro dynamics in the music when listen via our stereo system, depend greatly on the amplifier 'responsiveness' to the current load/power requirements from the headphone and the music being played (low frequencies will draw more power). You can have an amplifier that is rated at 1000W that has poorer PRAT/Dynamics than a unit rated at 50W if the latter is quick enough to fully meet all the power peaks, due to its capacity and their quality.

I don't think it is missing the point. When you want to explain the effects of a variable, you should keep the rest of the variables in ideal conditions, as the main point that is being constantly asked and / or discussed is power, as this is the most basic parameter being made available to the end user.

For what you have mentioned, I would be very surprised if this is an issue today at all (also considering it is unlikely that one has to go above 1W for normal listening volumes with Expanse, just double that for peaks), and I would expect it to be visible in the distortion figures of the amplifier. Though my background is electrical engineering, it has been long years since I did any RLC circuit analysis and don't have the experience to say some practical figures but this I would expect to be one of those theoretically possible but in practice insignificantly inaudible variables "for today's standards". If someone wants to correct me with physical facts and numbers, I would be glad to learn more.

 

[skylinekursk]

most weird and arguable thread =)
how does the expanse sound, uh? )

 

[ThanatosVI]

most strange and arguable thread =)
how does the expanse sound, uh? )

Great!

Harman neutral with some added Bass and reduced upper treble.
Soundstage is not as expansive as they Name might imply.

 

[skylinekursk]

Great!

Harman neutral with some added Bass and reduced upper treble.
Soundstage is not as expansive as they Name might imply

more posts like that one -)
I heard HP few weeks ago... was impressed by bass but not of dynamic and slam. Probably they were brand new and required burn in...and better set up (use ferrum ergo)
waiting my pair now =)

 

[gammi]

I think that what is confusing some people here is that the incorrect statement (about 'dynamics') is answered with another also missing the point explanation (OL). The micro/macro dynamics in the music when listen via our stereo system, depend greatly on the amplifier 'responsiveness' to the current load/power requirements from the headphone and the music being played (low frequencies will draw more power). You can have an amplifier that is rated at 1000W that has poorer PRAT/Dynamics than a unit rated at 50W if the latter is quick enough to fully meet all the power peaks, due to its capacity and their quality.

Yeah, you got it. You could have two 48W amps but for example, one could get up to max current faster, both have the same peak but the curve getting there is different. That faster one would seem more dynamic, the difference between no note playing and a note playing would be more immediate.

I'm a computer engineer, I've designed and fabricated my own integrated circuits, including IC op amps, that was literally a college project of mine. Transistors have a saturation curve, they are not light switches, the power doesn't go from off to max instantly, there is capacitance in the circuit that takes time to saturate before the output is reached. This is very applicable to amplifiers that have to push and pull current back and forth 10k times a second and having an excess allows them to fill the electrical need faster when called upon.

These are measurable, real effects that show up between amplifiers of same wattage but different architecture. You seem to already know this, I'm just replying to you to add some info for everyone else reading.

Great!

Harman neutral with some added Bass and reduced upper treble.
Soundstage is not as expansive as they Name might imply.

I've seen a lot of people say this (soundstage not very expansive), am I missing something or have I just not heard a headphone with a truly wide soundstage?
I've compared to my Utopia, Verite Open, and Empyreans and I think the Expanse sounds the widest, with Utopia a close second. Would people generally disagree with that? Am I interpreting something else as soundstage?

Perhaps I'm conflating "air" with soundstage, the Expanse is very airy to me, the notes pop out of the black more so than all the others. It's very airy (at least on the R800i) and the imaging is so precise, that gives the sensation of a wide soundstage imo. Maybe it's the tubes making the difference? It sounds muffled and closed in comparison when I switch back to the jot2.

 

[DarginMahkum]

Measurable =/= Audible. Nearly all headphones in the market will have measurable differences between the left and the right side. That does not mean people's ears are sensitive enough to detect it, especially considering how adaptive the hearing is. Measurement devices are far more sensitive than ears.

 

[MFZZ]

Sound stage breadth of 800 S is the benchmark I use. Expanse to my ear is nowhere close to 800 S. Not a good nor bad thing.

 

[johnwillmclean]

Sound stage breadth of 800 S is the benchmark I use. Expanse to my ear is nowhere close to 800 S. Not a good nor bad thing.

For me the HD800S are an exaggeration and the DCA Expanse an over promise.

I enjoy both!

Has anyone compared the Expanse with a top stats? I’ve ended up preferring the DCA Expanse over a SR-007 MK 2 / KGSSHV Carbon.

 

[OneEyedHito]

Yeah, you got it. You could have two 48W amps but for example, one could get up to max current faster, both have the same peak but the curve getting there is different. That faster one would seem more dynamic, the difference between no note playing and a note playing would be more immediate.

I'm a computer engineer, I've designed and fabricated my own integrated circuits, including IC op amps, that was literally a college project of mine. Transistors have a saturation curve, they are not light switches, the power doesn't go from off to max instantly, there is capacitance in the circuit that takes time to saturate before the output is reached. This is very applicable to amplifiers that have to push and pull current back and forth 10k times a second and having an excess allows them to fill the electrical need faster when called upon.

These are measurable, real effects that show up between amplifiers of same wattage but different architecture. You seem to already know this, I'm just replying to you to add some info for everyone else reading.



I've seen a lot of people say this (soundstage not very expansive), am I missing something or have I just not heard a headphone with a truly wide soundstage?
I've compared to my Utopia, Verite Open, and Empyreans and I think the Expanse sounds the widest, with Utopia a close second. Would people generally disagree with that? Am I interpreting something else as soundstage?

Perhaps I'm conflating "air" with soundstage, the Expanse is very airy to me, the notes pop out of the black more so than all the others. It's very airy (at least on the R800i) and the imaging is so precise, that gives the sensation of a wide soundstage imo. Maybe it's the tubes making the difference? It sounds muffled and closed in comparison when I switch back to the jot2.

1266-TC seem to be the soundstage kings, maybe the Arya Stealth as a contender. I find the Expanse to be just right for a headphone. Not synthetically wide as from a parlor trick or atmos type of thing but great for a headphone. The 1266 TC are the closest to a great near field 2 channel setup I’ve heard. The Stealth do soundstage and the ‘Air’ both very very well to me but the Expanse does it better with the added bass 120-200hz bump for my ears and enjoyment.

I should add after reading all posts above that the 800/800S do offer that great Volume around the music like I’m in a bigger music hall but they aren’t my preferred tonality.

 

[gammi]

1266-TC seem to be the soundstage kings, maybe the Arya Stealth as a contender. I find the Expanse to be just right for a headphone. Not synthetically wide as from a parlor trick or atmos type of thing but great for a headphone. The 1266 TC are the closest to a great near field 2 channel setup I’ve heard. The Stealth do soundstage and the ‘Air’ both very very well to me but the Expanse does it better with the added bass 120-200hz bump for my ears and enjoyment.

I should add after reading all posts above that the 800/800S do offer that great Volume around the music like I’m in a bigger music hall but they aren’t my preferred tonality.

I think this is a good way to put it. I've never found myself feeling claustrophobic while listening to the Expanse and I've also never thought it sounded artificially wide. Just feels natural.

 

[number1sixerfan]

I've seen a lot of people say this (soundstage not very expansive), am I missing something or have I just not heard a headphone with a truly wide soundstage?
I've compared to my Utopia, Verite Open, and Empyreans and I think the Expanse sounds the widest, with Utopia a close second. Would people generally disagree with that? Am I interpreting something else as soundstage?

Perhaps I'm conflating "air" with soundstage, the Expanse is very airy to me, the notes pop out of the black more so than all the others. It's very airy (at least on the R800i) and the imaging is so precise, that gives the sensation of a wide soundstage imo. Maybe it's the tubes making the difference? It sounds muffled and closed in comparison when I switch back to the jot2.

This thread is chaotic... it's like nothing can be said without immediate confrontation from the same user. But anyways, to answer your question here broadly, the Utopia (both the OG and 2022 models) are pretty narrow soundstage wise (left to right) compared to TC/HD800/009/Sr1a/Susvara etc. Not sure how far the Expanse is compared to the Utopia, but will see this coming Friday. But I think if you find them quite a bit more Expansive than the Utopia, that should put them in an average or better than average category.

 

[paradoxper]

This thread is chaotic... it's like nothing can be said without immediate confrontation from the same user. But anyways, to answer your question here broadly, the Utopia (both the OG and 2022 models) are pretty narrow soundstage wise (left to right) compared to TC/HD800/009/Sr1a/Susvara etc. Not sure how far the Expanse is compared to the Utopia, but will see this coming Friday. But I think if you find them quite a bit more Expansive than the Utopia, that should put them in an average or better than average category.

Just imagine, with each Darwin reply, Clark sales tank.

 

[Lumithium]

IMO the HD800/S soundstage is more artificial than natural. The brighter tuning gives it a bit of an edge in soundstage over Expanse.

 

[number1sixerfan]

IMO the HD800/S soundstage is more artificial than natural. The brighter tuning gives it a bit of an edge in soundstage over Expanse.

I don't know if it's the tonal tuning, but I do absolutely agree with you that if feels a bit artificial. And also, I think some people only focus on soundstage width and that's what they mean when they refer to soundstage, but depth is also very important to me as well. As expansive as it is width wise, overall I don't think it's the best or top 5 in example overall. Just that it's certainly more open than the Utopia in example, as a reference to his post.