[David A Silva]

UPDATE on the Qudelix 5K / Aeon 2 Noire pairing:
The problem mentioned in the original posting and below was only related to the battery of my older “music-dedicated” iPhone getting weak.
On my iPhone 12 Pro Max Qudelix 5K can drive Aeon 2 Noire with full power, which is by far louder than I need!

(Qudelix 5K, I have and like it, unfortunately has some problems driving the DCA Aeon 2 Noire’s combination of quite low 13 Ohm impedance and rel. low sensitivity of 92 dB/mW.)


I think this info is important, as the Qudelix 5K is a great amp with unbeaten versatility for a portable solution, comparable to RME ADI-2 for desktop.

Great discovery, not something I would have thought of. Thanks for mentioning it!

 

[parawizard]

I was able to drive my Noires with my Qudelix 5k plenty loud even with EQ running balanced.

 

[Empyah]

On my RME ADI-2 DAC fs there is some high-pitch distortion with the Noires, as well as the Ether 2 if I use the Phones output, however with the IEM output the sound is super clean. If I use longer cable the issue is less prominent (tried different shorter cables, same issue; tried with the Fiio K7 - no audible distortion at all). Probably it's due to the low impedance 13 Ohm of the headphones and RME supports only 16 Ohms min for its main phones output? Did you experience/hear such an issue with the RME distortion and DCA headphones?

Aoen's or Ethers will never sound up to their potential on any RME, they need real oomph, try any of the new Violectric models paired with a decent DAC like the Bifrost 2 etc.

 

[parawizard]

Aoen's or Ethers will never sound good or to their potential on any RME, they need real oomph, try any of the new Violectric models paired with a decent DAC like the Bifrost 2 etc.

I don't agree. I think DCA recommends 600mw. Just under few hundred milliwatts gets too loud enough for me. Be RME should suffice.

What what be lacking at 600mw +?

 

[David A Silva]

I don't agree. I think DCA recommends 600mw. Just under few hundred milliwatts gets too loud enough for me. Be RME should suffice.

What what be lacking at 600mw +?

Same here. Both Aeon Closed X and Aeon 2 Noire are loud and punchy with my RME, with a 6 db lower bass shelf starting at 75 hz.

 

[Empyah]

I don't agree. I think DCA recommends 600mw. Just under few hundred milliwatts gets too loud enough for me. Be RME should suffice.

What what be lacking at 600mw +?

Sure, if you believe "loud enough" means sounding good all the less power to you.

 

[_daRK]

Exactly! I don't get why so many guys here are talking about loudness and they think that it's the same thing as good sound.

 

[trigeger]

real oomph

What is it?

 

[parawizard]

Sure, if you believe "loud enough" means sounding good all the less power to you.

I don't run it maxed out that is for sure. There is some decent headroom. Actually enough so to -6db and EQ. I still don't max it out.

So what are you saying is sounding better with 1000mw of power available? Less distortion? Is this just based on listening or did you do some math to figure out how much power you need with impedance + sensitivity?

 

[KaiSc]

Aoen's or Ethers will never sound up to their potential on any RME, they need real oomph, try any of the new Violectric models paired with a decent DAC like the Bifrost 2 etc.

How do you come to that opinion?
Do you own an RME ADI-2 to compare by your own?

I don’t see one in your signature.

 

[Empyah]

Have you tried them on anything except your RME?

 

[KaiSc]

Have you tried them on anything except your RME?

If you read along my postings you can see I do mericulosly performed blind A/B comparisons, which completely exclude expectation bias, level differences etc., boil down the result to the real existing difference.

Such a comparison takes 2 hours at least, I take notes, do 100 or more A/B run throughs etc.
Why is that:
Because the real differences between amps and DAC’s are so small that it takes such an big effort to nail them.
As you live close to my place (”earth“) I invited you take part on such an event, it‘s an eye-opener and myth killer.


And yes, as a pro-audio guy I have a great variety of amps and DACs at hand to compare with.
I can not agree with the myth that more power results in more “oomph“, except if you drive the headphones at each amp’s full power (which will either kill your ears or the ‘phone, or both).
Even connected to a speaker amp more “oomph” at the same loudness doesn’t happen.

 

[kennyb123]

If you read along my postings you can see I do mericulosly performed blind A/B comparisons, which completely exclude expectation bias, level differences etc., boil down the result to the real existing difference.

Such a comparison takes 2 hours at least, I take notes, do 100 or more A/B run throughs etc.
Why is that:
Because the real differences between amps and DAC’s are so small that it takes such an big effort to nail them.
As you live close to my place (”earth“) I invited you take part on such an event, it‘s an eye-opener and myth killer.

If the aim is to be a “myth killer”, it can’t also be said to “completely exclude expectation bias”.

 

[BS5711]

If you read along my postings you can see I do mericulosly performed blind A/B comparisons, which completely exclude expectation bias, level differences etc., boil down the result to the real existing difference.

Such a comparison takes 2 hours at least, I take notes, do 100 or more A/B run throughs etc.
Why is that:
Because the real differences between amps and DAC’s are so small that it takes such an big effort to nail them.
As you live close to my place (”earth“) I invited you take part on such an event, it‘s an eye-opener and myth killer.


And yes, as a pro-audio guy I have a great variety of amps and DACs at hand to compare with.
I can not agree with the myth that more power results in more “oomph“, except if you drive the headphones at each amp’s full power (which will either kill your ears or the ‘phone, or both).
Even connected to a speaker amp more “oomph” at the same loudness doesn’t happen.

I absolutely agree.

I don’t do exhaustive blind testing but at the same time I approach a comparison actually expecting NOT to hear a difference. If differences are really as obvious as some people state I want something to jump out at me, I don’t want to have to search for it.

I have listened to my Mr Speakers Aeon Flow Open and DCA Aeon Noire on a number of amps and DAC/Amps ranging from an Apple Lightning dongle, Go Bar, UP5, Gryphon, Mojo, Diablo, Magni 3, Magni Piety, Asgard 3 as well as straight out of my Fiio M11 Plus LTD.

Unless listening to tiny details in some songs that might highlight the very slightest difference in sibilance for example, they all sound essentially the same, very much more alike than different.

Even comparing the Asgard 3, which is an excellent technical pairing with the Aeon since the Asgard 3 puts out its maximum 5 Watts into only 16 ohms, to something like the Go Bar there is absolutely nothing that to my ear indicates the Aeon have “opened up” or “come alive” due to having over 10 times the power on tap.

I think the whole Aeons requiring plenty of power to perform is nonsense, it certainly is in my experience.

I had an interesting situation recently testing an ifi Diablo against a ddhifi TC35i dongle, actually uses the same internals as an Apple dongle. Not with the Aeon but a very power hungry planar IEM, again stated to really NEED power to perform best. I was listening back and forth then got interrupted with a phone call then had to look into some work issues. In the meantime I continued with my listening and when I was done with the work stuff I thought, wow the Diablo is sounding excellent, only to look down and see I was plugged into the ddhifi dongle that puts out 16.8mw !

 

[KaiSc]

If the aim is to be a “myth killer”, it can’t also be said to “completely exclude expectation bias”.

No, my goal always is to find the differences, else a longer A/B would just be a waste of time.

Usually there are some, but no way night and day and not always clearly better on one or the other candidate.
Specially this “oomph”-thingy I never found.

Using an EQ just a few dB always dominated the differences.

This is why I like the RME ADI-2 on every day‘s music listening (finally that’s what it’s all about): no hustle, If I like some EQ or anything it’s there in a second.

Then, when I take more time, I might switch on a tube amp, or unpack exotic headphones and have a “very special glass of whine”-type experience.