[MrMateoHead]

  i had some news on the Frontline of Sorbothane mod... I take off 4 or the 12 patches i had put on the HE 400 (duro 30 1/8inches) and put them on the exterior faceplate of the cups of my FOSTEX TH7-B... Wow the sound is better in the mids BUT the sound of the He 400 with only 8 patches on the exterior edge of the cups was way better, in the highs and mids frequencies...The lesson to be learned is : Not to much sorbothane... very important

Hi Richard - Thanks for the update. I also feel that I may have overdamped a tad, and should pull a few patches off. Can you supply a picture of your latest change. Or, what, in percentage terms, would you say is the sorb-coverage you are at now - 75%? 50%?
 
If I break one more tab on my retaining ring I am in trouble, but I was thinking if pulling 1/2 patches off so that Noon - 3pm, 6pm, and 9 pm were uncovered. I'll leave my small strips on the driver itself, which I guess is beneficial (I did real that sorb can be stuck, for example, right to the back of tweeter - I'd love to try that too).

 

[richard51]

 
 
Quote:

 
Hi Richard - Thanks for the update. I also feel that I may have overdamped a tad, and should pull a few patches off. Can you supply a picture of your latest change. Or, what, in percentage terms, would you say is the sorb-coverage you are at now - 75%? 50%?
 
If I break one more tab on my retaining ring I am in trouble, but I was thinking if pulling 1/2 patches off so that Noon - 3pm, 6pm, and 9 pm were uncovered. I'll leave my small strips on the driver itself, which I guess is beneficial (I did real that sorb can be stuck, for example, right to the back of tweeter - I'd love to try that too).

i think that i have 60 percent covered not less perhaps 65 ...more than that (  8 patches for each cup all on the exterior edge of the cup) the sound was muffled in the mids  and the highs...way better now with more air ....I put the sorb without, not inside, because the necessity to open them for the experiment multiple times...I will put the sorb inside perhaps later...the external sorb was not in the way anyway...i put the 8 extra patches on my Fostex and that was exactly better also...less spectacular than with the he 400 but very good...good luck with your ring... take extra care my friend...

 
 
p.s. My Fostex TH7B had a better  upper bass with the 4 patches of sorb on the exterior cup... their mid is so well put, their balance so exquisite, that for 60 dollars they beat the hell out of my stax basic and he 400 (slightly less inferior, i will say different because of their balance and imaging depth )...If you are poor , dont kill yourself buy them (80 dollars now new)i know now that price is not the only warrenty of a good sound...few dollars of sorb change also many things...
 
IMPORTANT NOTE : i put another little piece of sorb on the center of the plate where the four pieces circle her.... INCREDIBLE transformation with this one little piece... better soundstage...Added : i had cut the 5 pieces in 4 little pieces with a blade....the result for me is better

 

[nick n]

Great impressions. Thanks.
Some things it changes quite drastically in a good way, some not so much.
 
Tried some on a ruby-evaporated dynamic driver set last night and I had to start removing most of it again and am down to just a thin strip around the driver mounts inside.
Even that I am not sure yet. Perhaps a few less pieces.
Need to change back to the stock pads to confirm.
 
As you say : "The lesson to be learned is : Not too much sorbothane... very important

"

 

[richard51]

 
 
 (it is possible to made the cut cleaner than mine with a razor blade..)
 
 
How to make a simple filtering space with many pieces of damping sorbothane : 6 RULES:  1 Many small pieces works better than more large one  2 too big mass of sorbothane does not work well , because too much is worse, (too much damping is a catastrophy, blutak mod for example is damping mod hence +sorb mod maybe too much damping simultaneous mod) and 3 the right thickness and duro...mine is 30 duro,1/8 inches for the metallic cup of the HE400, i had not try higher duro because i think the 30 duro work so well for me 4  and not more than 65% of the surface covered by sorbothane and probably around 50% or a little more  is way better ....5  cut rule modulo 6 : with a razor blade or an exacto you cut a rectangular pieces in 6 little squares. ( it is not necessary to cut it before sticking it to the headphone, it was more easy for me to cut it after because i want them very close one another)I had originally stick 4 pieces of sorb at the bottom of the hoop, i cut now the four rectangular pieces of sorb in 6 pieces each, hence at one level i have 4 pieces of sorb, at another level i have divided these 4 pieces of sorb in 24 pieces, and i think that the mass of sorb act  at one level as a 24 frequencies filtering mass, at another level act like an agglomerate 4 filtering frequencies mass of sorb... the principle is simple : divide the mass in cutting it in  6...

 

i am no engineer but the end result was extraordinary...clear sound across the board...that is my experience... The filtering of frequencies is not optimalized  if the mass of damping  sorb is  too much  big for the space damped or too homogeneous...In short i think the agglomerate of 48 located masses(6X8 on each cup)  absorb better  some higher vibration and the 4 little masses  in the upper part of the cups and  the 4 in the lower part of the cup act like 8 separate units and absorb better some other  bass vibration... In short  the GOLDEN RULE :cutting  in 6 the damping mass of sorbothane transform it in a filtering space for various resonance. Effectively the form of any piece of sorbothane play a major role in vibration absorption.If for example  the cuts were not totally completed and if the 6 little pieces are always partly linked together because the cutting was not absolutely complete the lack of clarity of the highs frequencies will be evident in a less detailed soundstage ...

 
Added 24oct: It seems that the filtering effect of the highs are better realized for me with this design cuts :
 


 the highs are clearer and the bass untouched or less marked by these cuts, a rectangular  piece of sorb cutted in 6 little squares.... i had translate all i had previously  written in this post  with my new experience (4 into 6 pieces) this is way better mod that clearly made an improvement of the definition of soundstage, if higher frequencies are more clearly defined, soundstage and localization of instruments are better , hence the filtering effects of dividing strip of sorb in 6 is an astounding  improvement....

rule 6 :  necessary to square all pieces of sorb,never sticking an integral piece of sorb without cutting in 6 or the sound will be more muffled; the filtering of the sound makes all frequencies more organic and will offer to you a more airy sound (Of my 8 pieces of sorb when 2 or 3 has been stick without being cutted in 6 the effect is immediately audible the sound was less airy less clear) . But i think,  i had not try that,  it is intuitive speculation, that the cut in diagonals will be better for the filtering effect : ( if someone try that let me know the results, i dont have leftover sorb to try )

 
 
i am no engineer but the end result was extraordinary...clear sound across the board ON MY 2 DIFFERENT headphones...that is my experience... The filtering of frequencies is not optimalized  if the mass of damping  sorb is much too big for the space damped or too homogeneous, that is the fundamental rule of rules...In short i think the agglomerate of 6 little squares  act like one located mass and absorb better  some  bass vibration and the 6  separate little masses  in each of the 4 upper and 4 lower rectangular pieces absorb better some other  higher vibration... In short  the GOLDEN RULE cutting  in 6 the damping mass of sorbothane transform it in a filtering space for resonance. Effectively the form of any piece of sorbothane play a major role in vibration absorption (the sorbothane site affirmed that if i remember).   I am no scientist, it is only my explanation...

 
It is an experiment  in relation with the basic material of your headphone, plastic or metallic, the densities of your headphones, etc,and you must explore by Yourself and experiment, and READ the thread of Edstrelow to know the basic...People dont read these days... i put the sorb. outside BECAUSE nobody already know the right from wrong now for this or that headphones in particular, hence i dont want to mess with the delicacy of the grill right now in assembling and desassembling it many times.

 
 
p.s. i put duro 30 1/8 inches on my HE400 i cannot imagine better...duro 30 is very malleable under pression and perhaps better for the HE400
 
IMPORTANT NOTE: i cannot insist enough on that : too much sorb or too big piece will DESTRUCT the sound...i made this mistake in the beginning... i cannot insist enough on that:worsening the sound is very easy...My 6 rules will help you to try and when you will got it right, the result will be unmistakable. Essentially it is the end result when you have a clarification on all the  spectrum,with an organic very fluid sound,restitution of a more natural midrange with more depth,nearly out of the ears soundstage, a real 3-d sound,this would be the end result for the HE 400...good luck to all
 
 
P.S. description of the mod : i have four  rectangular pieces (3/4 inches by 1 inches) at the bottom of the hoop... the spacing is visible on the photos... i had four other little pieces (each  2 set of 2 little  squares pieces of approx 1/2 inches by 1/2 inches approx. distributed between  the center of the hoop in the  upper half of the cup... the height is very tight there with 1/8 inches thick pieces of sorb( if i had one i would have tried with 1/10 inches there ) .. it is important to cut all these pieces in 6 ,,, the sound is better more soundstage and very silky sound.... Hence i had now 8 pieces on each cup of the headphone in all cutted in six...Between the 2 groups of 6 pieces on each cup there is a void space of approx 2 inches 1/2 without pieces...
 
Conclusion
The naked metallic case of the HE400 product vibrations resonance that kill the sound... I had not listen with pure bliss  to my he 400 really for next to 2 years because these vibrations plagued the sound... i changed 4 times of amplifier with some good results but nothing was great before i begin to investigate this sorb. mod. this thread of Edstrelow is a great discovery the most important one... the great crowd of headfiers listen now their headphone without knowing that they dont have access to their true potential... it is a pity... it is the reason i put my observation here...In reality the Sorbothane application is not a modification of the headphone but a true restitution of the headphone potential... Perhaps it will be better to name this sorb. restitution rather than modification, it is in the end not a physical structural modification of the original product but the cancelling of the negative effect of vibration... My method confirm Edstrelow discovery that the sorb. mod transform the Stax more than an upgrading amplification and i confirm that for the HE400, with the application rule i describe below...

I apologize for my bad English(it not my first language ) thanks for your kind interest
 
p.s. i had seen a video about anax mod for taming senn HD800... i am pretty certain than the application of Sorbothane there will do a more miraculous cure... the reason is simple the material used in the anax mod  does not have the filtration capacity of a pieces of sorbothane squared or diagonalized... A material only per se cannot filtrate highs and bass , sorb cannot if not squared, hence the anax mod must cure the peculiar high frequencies problem of this headphone but cannot cure all his vibration problem..I dont have an HD800 to experiment with,only my 2 cent as i say i am only an amateur...  Same probably for ALL headphones...
 
EVIDENTLY ALL HERE PRESENTED LIKE FACTS ARE ONLY MY HUMBLE OPINION AND EXPERIENCE, I CANNOT BE RESPONSIBLE if you do  not apply my guideline for 2 reasons: with sorbothane very little variation with form, cuts,thickness, duro, made BIG differences , and secondly in audio all is matter in the end of personal taste and past experiences...thanks to all of you
 
IMPORTANT NOTE AND ADDITIONAL INFORMATION : after 2 months with the sorb mod. it seems that the  gluing process is very slow on metal, and the glue adhrence take weeks, I now observe a spectacular more imaging capacity and 3 d presence ....Hence WAIT for the better to come if you put the sorb on metal cups...I was listening the he 400 for 2 days now after 2 weeks without  listening to them and i observe that upgrade with the gluing bonding  adherence with awe...

 

[BeatsWork]

Internal vs. external is a really interesting question and I suspect very different effect? i.e. if placed inside then it's going to directly absorb some of the sound energy vs. externally where it would only reduce resonance in cup? I've only done Fuzzor mod on grill side of open planar but may throw some sorb on external cup surface to see what happens ...

 

[richard51]

  Internal vs. external is a really interesting question and I suspect very different effect? i.e. if placed inside then it's going to directly absorb some of the sound energy vs. externally where it would only reduce resonance in cup? I've only done Fuzzor mod on grill side of open planar but may throw some sorb on external cup surface to see what happens ...

i think it is better to try one mod at a time...the sorb on the exterior cup absorb the echo vibration that muddle the sound i think... when apply on the exterior cup  adequately the transformation is extraordinary.... more clarity on all frequencies better soundstage... So good that i cannot imagine that fuzzor mod will not meddle with that...i will wait for your review...thanks

 

[richard51]

I got an extraordinary result this evening... The sorb mod had great effect... but i was not completey satisfied....my last modification was  yesterday the discovery that too much is worser than too little....then i remove   4 patches off my HE400 and that was way better for them...I put the extra patches on my fostex yesterday and the tuning of the Fostex was extraordinary also on all the spectrum frequencies... this evening i put an extra patche on the center of the 4 patches on the Fostex that was better also (the photos are a little higher  on this thread) ...Then this evening i decide with an exacto (without removing the  rectangular self stick pieces off the headphones) that i will cut each rectangular pieces in four squares... the result was a more greater clarity on all the spectrum with the HE400 and with the Fostex... this is a great lesson smaller is better    

 
Best regards to you all

 

[edstrelow]

  I got an extraordinary result this evening... The sorb mod had great effect... but i was not completey satisfied....my last modification was  yesterday the discovery that too much is worser than too little....then i remove   4 patches off my HE400 and that was way better for them...I put the extra patches on my fostex yesterday and the tuning of the Fostex was extraordinary also on all the spectrum frequencies... this evening i put an extra patche on the center of the 4 patches on the Fostex that was better also (the photos are a little higher  on this thread) ...Then this evening i decide with an exacto (without removing the  rectangular self stick pieces off the headphones) that i will cut each rectangular pieces in four squares... the result was a more greater clarity on all the spectrum with the HE400 and with the Fostex... this is a great lesson smaller is better    

 
Best regars to you all

Among the many things we don't understand about damping headphones is how you can use too much damping material such as sorbothane. You would think that when you have damped the hell out of a phone then additional damping material would have no further effect. Yet we consistently find that you can overdo it with the  damping. I recall that with both my Stax Sigmas and SR003's I got unpleasant bass boosts with too.much sorb.

 

[nick n]

I started out using smaller squares then later on in some things tried the longer rectangle pieces. I had initially thought that smaller squares would be better at breaking up standing waves and have more edge area to release vibes and /or more actual surface area since edges of it are also exposed.
 
Perhaps vibrations hitting more smaller bits is dealt with better than vibration travelling through a larger single solid mass of sorb.
 
 
Think I will go back to smaller squares again.
 
 
This is getting interesting.

 

[richard51]

  I started out using smaller squares then later on in some things tried the longer rectangle pieces. I had initially thought that smaller squares would be better at breaking up standing waves and have more edge area to release vibes and /or more actual surface area since edges of it are also exposed.
 
Perhaps vibrations hitting more smaller bits is dealt with better than vibration travelling through a larger single solid mass of sorb.
 
 
Think I will go back to smaller squares again.
 
 
This is getting interesting.

i had no idea why it is the way it is but i just cut open the rectangular pieces into four squares without separating them with my hand only  separating them by cutting them with an exacto.... the result was better for me and unmistakable... Now i had finished with this mod on my 2 headphones... For the Stax i will wait the moment i will had the courage to open the baffle...

 

[LancerFIN]

More pieces = more surface area. Each cut introduces two open sides.

 

[richard51]

  More pieces = more surface area. Each cut introduces two open sides.

exactly...and i think that i had a beginning of answer to the question of Edstrelow.... Why more damping is so bad...The filtering of frequencies is not optimalized if the mass of damping  sorb is  much too big for the space damped or too homogeneous...the important point is :  cutting  in 4 the damping mass of sorbothane transform it in a filtering space  It is my fifth rules ... i will write it now...

see my 5 rules in the post below this one ... It is only the written experience of an "amateur", i am no engineer...But the sorb mod is a miraculous mod for me... i had my HE400 for next to 2 years , it is the first time i enjoyed them fully...English is not my first language and i apologize for my inhability to nuance all...
 
and Yes Edsrelow i can say now that the Sorb mod. rightly applied is more extraordinary transformation than my new Hitachi  amp or at least on par with an upgrading new  amplifier... this thread i had already said it, is the most important one for me on HEADFI period.
 
P.S.
With the right application of the sorb. mods I am in love with the relax and silky sound of the FOSTEX TH7-B  (60 dollars)and way better now for me  than my stax basic system non-sorbothanized ( the soundstage of the Fostex are less spacious than Stax because it is a semi-closed can but the mid organic sound and rendering naturalness of the human voice and instrument is the winner, keep in mind that my Stax are not sorbothanized, if they will the result will be different )... i know that is not credible but it is the truth...

the HE400 is planars on steroid with a more open soundstage also superior for my taste  to the Stax basic non-modded... Now with sorb.mod rightly applied i prefer the  HE400 but the  Fostex isolation and natural timbre with voice is very rewarding... 2 different animals ...i cannot part with one or the other ...  I cannot thank you enough Edstrelow...

 

 

[screwdriver]

I have a hifiman HE6 in which I did the grill mod and replaced the stock pads with hifiman focus pads and the lohb suspension mod, I dd not do the fuzzor mod as I like the he6 that way  very clear . I use oppo 103 to play hi res files - schiit yggy - nelson pass F1J amp speaker taps to norne audio draught  - hifiman HE6
With this set up it made the he6 sound so good wide open sound stage and when listening I experiment a bit placing my hands in front , at the top , at the back and below the earcups as if to half cup or half closed the headphones  - the best sound for me was when the hands are in front .
I obtained  sorbotane 1/8 thick  40 duro  and I placed three strips on each earcup but mostly at the front half of the earcup to mimic what I experimented on - strips of 1/2 x 1 , 1/2 x 1 and 1/2 x 1 1/2
 
now listening to my he6 I enjoy them even more - bass is tighter , there is more air
 
I then experimented to put more strips at the rear half of the earcups but I did not like the sound  so I removed the sorbothane pieces from the rear half of the earcups
 
im glad I came across this mod

 

[TPSRA]

  I have a hifiman HE6 in which I did the grill mod and replaced the stock pads with hifiman focus pads and the lohb suspension mod, I dd not do the fuzzor mod as I like the he6 that way  very clear . I use oppo 103 to play hi res files - schiit yggy - nelson pass F1J amp speaker taps to norne audio draught  - hifiman HE6
With this set up it made the he6 sound so good wide open sound stage and when listening I experiment a bit placing my hands in front , at the top , at the back and below the earcups as if to half cup or half closed the headphones  - the best sound for me was when the hands are in front .
I obtained  sorbotane 1/8 thick  40 duro  and I placed three strips on each earcup but mostly at the front half of the earcup to mimic what I experimented on - strips of 1/2 x 1 , 1/2 x 1 and 1/2 x 1 1/2
 
now listening to my he6 I enjoy them even more - bass is tighter , there is more air
 
I then experimented to put more strips at the rear half of the earcups but I did not like the sound  so I removed the sorbothane pieces from the rear half of the earcups
 
im glad I came across this mod

Interesting....
But why didn't you do the fuzzor mod? It shouldn't demolish the clarity. 

 

[screwdriver]

U do the fuzzor mos to tame the highs,I don't need it in my set uo