[bigshot]

Try Sign o the times with pro logic. That is the one that sounds best.

The UK release of Moonage Daydream has Atmos. I can tell that the 5.1 is a bounce down of the Atmos. There’s sound placed in the center of the room.

 

[Davesrose]

Try Sign o the times with pro logic. That is the one that sounds best.

The UK release of Moonage Daydream has Atmos. I can tell that the 5.1 is a bounce down of the Atmos. There’s sound placed in the center of the room.

We've had a discussion about Pro Logic before. Again, Dolby Surround is the successor to Pro Logic II. Previously you indicated you thought Sign O The Times had a Dolby Stereo encode in the stero track, but it doesn't (the DVD does, but not the BD). It is stereo, and if you put it in Pro Logic, it is matrixing to 5.1 like Surround does with 7.1.4. With an actual Atmos system, Atmos sounds the best to me.

What UK release have you got? Blu-ray.com says it comes out Dec 5 and there's no audio specs (for Germany, the upcoming disc does list 5.1).

 

[bigshot]

It comes out in the UK on the 5th like you say. I bought the US one because I don't need Atmos. I heard in one of the video groups that it would have an atmos track.

Have you watched Sign O The Times all the way through yet? There are parts in the Atmos where they did some kind of EQ trick to isolate solos and then mixed them in over the top with a totally different kind of sound. It's only in certain parts. Dolby Surround should decode the stereo track if it's backwards compatible.

 

[Davesrose]

It comes out in the UK on the 5th like you say. I bought the US one because I don't need Atmos. I heard in one of the video groups that it would have an atmos track.

Have you watched Sign O The Times all the way through yet? There are parts in the Atmos where they did some kind of EQ trick to isolate solos and then mixed them in over the top with a totally different kind of sound. It's only in certain parts. Dolby Surround should decode the stereo track if it's backwards compatible.

There is no indication that the UK title is different than any of the other BD releases: which are all 5.1. Even the album on Apple music is not Dolby Atmos.

I don’t know how many times I have to say: Sign O The Times stereo track on BD is standard stereo. There is no “decoding”. If you are listening through Pro Logic, it is matrixing 2.0 to 5.1. If you are listening with Dolby Surround, it is matrixing 2.0 to 5.1.2, 7.1.4, etc. I did watch it in Atmos. With an Atmos system, I didn’t hear any parts that had odd placement. And the main difference I heard with Atmos vs Auro-3D is more recessed and open with Auro vs more intimate with Atmos.

 

[bigshot]

It decodes using Pro Logic. I've done it. Audience in rear, vocals and solos in center, and the original balances- not the highlighting that I mentioned in the previous comment. I have many movies that decode to surround from the stereo track with ProLogic.

Bummer about the Atmos if that is true. There have been other releases lately where there is Atmos on the European release and not on the US. Maybe they got the Bowie disc mixed up with it.

 

[Davesrose]

It decodes using Pro Logic. I've done it. Audience in rear, vocals and solos in center, and the original balances- not the highlighting that I mentioned in the previous comment. I have many movies that decode to surround from the stereo track with ProLogic.

Bummer about the Atmos if that is true. There have been other releases lately where there is Atmos on the European release and not on the US. Maybe they got the Bowie disc mixed up with it.

There is no decoding with a stereo track that doesn’t have Dolby Stereo. That encode was meant for the Dolby Pro Logic I decoding done with movie titles during VHS (the BD is standard 2.0). Again, Pro Logic II does not retain 4.0: it matrixes 2.0 to 5.1 (and became the standard with receivers when they were Dolby Digital). https://professional.dolby.com/tv/dolby-pro-logic-ii/#gref

Blu-ray.com did indicate a possible 4K disc being released next year. Usually the 4K is more likely to have Atmos or DTS:X. However, I’m not sure about this one. On streaming, it’s 4K 5.1 without HDR. The video is also a bummer: HDR is a major improvement with 4K.

 

[bigshot]

Well whatever it's using, my Dolby DSP is decoding the Dolby Stereo to 4.0. That sounds better because it doesn't have the sections where the remix grossly changes the balances and EQ of the featured performer.

 

[Davesrose]

Well whatever it's using, my Dolby DSP is decoding the Dolby Stereo to 4.0. That sounds better because it doesn't have the sections where the remix grossly changes the balances and EQ of the featured performer.

Again, there is no Dolby Stereo on Sign O The Times BD. It is straight PCM stereo. Your Pro Logic is matrixing 2.0 to 5.1. I have found that the processor doesn’t go crazy in putting things in surround, and does mainly put dialogue in the center. It’s Atmos/DTS/Auro-3D tracks also sounds fine on my system that natively supports each of these formats.

 

[bigshot]

I think you're just unable to decode old school Dolby Stereo, because I was able to decode it. Or maybe they've changed the stereo track since I bought it. But the copy I have has a Dolby Stereo track. It doesn't say that on the cover, but they used the theatrical soundtrack directly without remastering and it is encoded for Dolby Stereo.

 

[Davesrose]

I think you're just unable to decode old school Dolby Stereo, because I was able to decode it. Or maybe they've changed the stereo track since I bought it. But the copy I have has a Dolby Stereo track. It doesn't say that on the cover, but they used the theatrical soundtrack directly without remastering and it is encoded for Dolby Stereo.

Again, there is no Dolby Stereo to decode. The BD standard for PCM 2.0 is discrete 2.0. From what I have read about Dolby Stereo is that it could be transfered to Dolby Digital. On BD, it would be on a AC-3 track. But it seems every title I've looked at with BD that was a movie from the 80s/70s that had Dolby Stereo was remixed to DTS-MA/TrueHD 5.1. And then some have been remixed to Atmos. Interestingly I saw Anatomy of a Murder in Atmos last night. The surround effects were very subtle: most prominent was having echo effects in scenes with large halls.

 

[bigshot]

Dolby Stereo is regular stereo with out of phase content mixed in. There’s no carrier signal. It’s a regular two channel audio file. They even released hundreds of Dolby Stereo surround recordings on regular old CDs. If they don’t remaster the stereo track and mess up the out of phase material, Dolby Stereo passes right along. I have many DVDs and blu-rays that decide to surround sound, even if they don’t say so on the cover- both movies and TV.

On the Prince blu-ray my guess is the Dolby Stereo soundtrack was all that existed. So they decided that to multichannel, then layered a bunch of sweetening tricks on top to make it 5.1 and Atmos. It sounds much better just using the stereo track and decoding it. That is the way it would be heard in theaters capable of surround at the time. That one is Prince’s own approved mix.

 

[Davesrose]

Dolby Stereo is regular stereo with out of phase content mixed in. There’s no carrier signal. It’s a regular two channel audio file. They even released hundreds of Dolby Stereo surround recordings on regular old CDs. If they don’t remaster the stereo track and mess up the out of phase material, Dolby Stereo passes right along. I have many DVDs and blu-rays that decide to surround sound, even if they don’t say so on the cover- both movies and TV.

On the Prince blu-ray my guess is the Dolby Stereo soundtrack was all that existed. So they decided that to multichannel, then layered a bunch of sweetening tricks on top to make it 5.1 and Atmos. It sounds much better just using the stereo track and decoding it. That is the way it would be heard in theaters capable of surround at the time. That one is Prince’s own approved mix.

Again, the BD standard is for discrete 2.0 stereo. The DVD is listed as having Dolby Stereo, but the BD does not. For BD PCM 2.0 they have to use a stereo master. Dolby Stereo didn't just have a 4.0 encode, but also had Dolby Noise reduction. This is not needed for blu-ray. And I highly doubt they mixed Atmos or 5.1 from some Dolby Stereo optical print. Surely the original audio tracks survive on tape for them to remaster. And on my Atmos system, I didn't hear any random height effects with Sign O The Times.

https://www.discogs.com/master/268038-Prince-Sign-O-The-Times

Again, receivers phased out Pro Logic I when they went to Dolby Digital. Dolby Labs themeselves indicated that the methods used for matrixing surround from 2.0 with Dolby Pro Logic II were superior to using Dolby Pro Logic I with Dolby Stereo. Again, Pro Logic II and Dolby Surround matrixes 2.0 stereo to discrete surround: it doesn't factor Dolby Stereo content. The reason blu-rays don't say there's Dolby Stereo is that there is no Dolby Stereo on the medium.

 

[bigshot]

It's a shame that you can't directly decode Dolby Stereo. There are a lot of movies and CDs that are designed to be heard that way. Modern multichannel mixes can be good if they still have the elements. But if they don't the reworking doesn't always work. Some stuff is better the way the people who made it intended it to be heard.

I'll see if there is an inexpensive outboard box that decodes old school Dolby Stereo. That might be a good addition to your rig.

 

[Davesrose]

It's a shame that you can't directly decode Dolby Stereo. There are a lot of movies and CDs that are designed to be heard that way. Modern multichannel mixes can be good if they still have the elements. But if they don't the reworking doesn't always work. Some stuff is better the way the people who made it intended it to be heard.

I'll see if there is an inexpensive outboard box that decodes old school Dolby Stereo. That might be a good addition to your rig.

What model is your Yamaha? It would decode Dolby Stereo to 4.0 surround if it's all analog inputs (hence why DVDs still had Dolby Stereo for older receivers). I have suplied links to Pro Logic II, and how it uses 2.0. I have provided links showing the DVD of Sign of the Times has Dolby Stereo and the BD doesn't. Apparently you're still just ignoring all the evidence.

Now if you enjoy your reciever's Dolby Pro Logic II processing 2.0 that's great. I also like matrixed surround for many stereo sources. But it's false to say the BD of Sign of the Times is using Dolby Stereo when it does not exist!

 

[T 1000]

READ CAREFULLY
Just to clarify my position with "blind listening".
It is a very desirable method when deciding which model (of something) to choose, and when you have a bigger choice in front of you.
Second - You have received a component to "upgrade" your system, provided that you have cleaned your system to a large extent from various garbage that masks the true nature of your system (and this is what fascinates me the most in improving the audio quality so far), provided quality connections among your equipment.
With such a system (my case), two different headphones detect differently. In fact, one of them detects only larger shifts, while the other detects all subtle changes.
Of course, I evaluate the component I took for testing with headphones that are capable of the job.
IMPARTIAL - means that I have no intention of throwing away my hard-earned money, just to feed my illusion.
It's the same with hearing as it is with headphones, only you can't replace your hearing in a store, you have to take care of it and not serve it all kinds of psycho crap.
A small step in self-deception can be very bad, and he seeks to feed on a new amount of deception.
I don't want to get into that, so I consider my unbiased assessment to be a "scientific moment" in the validity of the upgrade.

I would like if Sound Science would shine, and that the opinions of intelligent people would be exchanged here about the possibilities offered by technology, with the aim of improving audio experiences.
With all scientific measurements and formulas