[Terdinus Asus]

I think the best way to judge the phones is how closely they reproduce the real sounds of instruments in the studio before they are ever touched by folks in the mixing booth in digital format. Graphs and charts and numbers are great math, but ultimately tell a very shallow and oft times false story.

Now experience with what real instruments sound like in person is limited for most people.

In my experience the D2000 reflect reality more accurately more often than the HD650, which tends to be more accurate to the digital mixed version of the music. Which is why it's a more clinical boring pair of cans. It does not reflect as well the raw reality, but a restrained interpretation of the person in charge of mixing.

When I listen to my music (from classical, soundtrack, to jazz, rock, pop) I want to feel like I'm there amongst the instruments, not in a booth. Others like to hear what the person in charge of mastering and mixing decided to convey.

 

[disastermouse]

Quote:

I think the best way to judge the phones is how closely they reproduce the real sounds of instruments in the studio before they are ever touched by folks in the mixing booth in digital format. Graphs and charts and numbers are great math, but ultimately tell a very shallow and oft times false story.

Now experience with what real instruments sound like in person is limited for most people.

In my experience the D2000 reflect reality more accurately more often than the HD650, which tends to be more accurate to the digital mixed version of the music. Which is why it's a more clinical boring pair of cans. It does not reflect as well the raw reality, but a restrained interpretation of the person in charge of mixing.

When I listen to my music (from classical, soundtrack, to jazz, rock, pop) I want to feel like I'm there amongst the instruments, not in a booth. Others like to hear what the person in charge of mastering and mixing decided to convey.

I can see a musician wanting to feel 'amongst the instruments' - but others of us like to feel as though we are a bit more 'birdseye' so that we can take in the entirety of the performance with the space intended BY THE MIX/MASTER PRO.
 
Why?  Because the mixer can decide, (hopefully in cooperation with the artists, although the mixer's objectivity is an asset here) what the 'optimal' vantage point is.
 
It's part of the art of recording to make these decisions before the recording reaches the intended audience.
 
The headphone/speaker system is NOT a cognizant member of the group of artists deciding on the sound - hence, a headphone may be 'fun' in altering it, but it shouldn't be regarded as 'superior' - and in fact, on many levels can be considered 'inferior' for interfering with the synergistic intents of the artists and mixer/master-er - mostly because it can't be applied to all recordings in such a way that it 'improves' them in the intended way.  
 
Now, if they come up with software/hardware that can map our sound preferences (assuming we're AWARE of them) and interfere with each recording reliably to produce a personalized soundscape that we prefer -  well, at that point, won't the superior headphone STILL be the one that carts the sound to the processor or from the processor with the least amount of interference or distortion?
 
Of course, by that time, the machines revolution will have happened and we'll be much more interested in starting a 'Butlerian Jihad' than getting a good sound from headphones.
 
(*Worries if the word 'Jihad' has put him on some sort of watchlist*)

 

[luckybaer]

The contents of any headphone review discussing the sound signature of any particular phone give insight into the actual sound reproduced by the phones as well as letting the reader know more about the sound preferences of the person writing the review.
 
Thanks for taking the time to write the review.  I enjoyed reading it.

 

[pp312]

Quote:

I think the best way to judge the phones is how closely they reproduce the real sounds of instruments in the studio before they are ever touched by folks in the mixing booth in digital format. Graphs and charts and numbers are great math, but ultimately tell a very shallow and oft times false story.

Now experience with what real instruments sound like in person is limited for most people.

In my experience the D2000 reflect reality more accurately more often than the HD650, which tends to be more accurate to the digital mixed version of the music. Which is why it's a more clinical boring pair of cans. It does not reflect as well the raw reality, but a restrained interpretation of the person in charge of mixing.

When I listen to my music (from classical, soundtrack, to jazz, rock, pop) I want to feel like I'm there amongst the instruments, not in a booth. Others like to hear what the person in charge of mastering and mixing decided to convey.

Personally I think the 650 is more accurate to the music as heard in free air from a distance.
As soon as distance is introduced treble is reduced. I believe the 650 designers took this into account in attempting to reproduce a typical concert hall or theatre sound, whereas other designers appear to be trying for a live, on-stage-next-to-the-performers effect.
 
At least, this is the only justification I can think of for some of the balances adopted by such brands as Grado, Beyer and Audio technica.  

 

[olor1n]

Quote:

Originally Posted by disastermouse /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 

I can see a musician wanting to feel 'amongst the instruments' - but others of us like to feel as though we are a bit more 'birdseye' so that we can take in the entirety of the performance with the space intended BY THE MIX/MASTER PRO.
 
Why?  Because the mixer can decide, (hopefully in cooperation with the artists, although the mixer's objectivity is an asset here) what the 'optimal' vantage point is.
 
It's part of the art of recording to make these decisions before the recording reaches the intended audience.
 
The headphone/speaker system is NOT a cognizant member of the group of artists deciding on the sound - hence, a headphone may be 'fun' in altering it, but it shouldn't be regarded as 'superior' - and in fact, on many levels can be considered 'inferior' for interfering with the synergistic intents of the artists and mixer/master-er - mostly because it can't be applied to all recordings in such a way that it 'improves' them in the intended way.  
 
Now, if they come up with software/hardware that can map our sound preferences (assuming we're AWARE of them) and interfere with each recording reliably to produce a personalized soundscape that we prefer -  well, at that point, won't the superior headphone STILL be the one that carts the sound to the processor or from the processor with the least amount of interference or distortion?
 
Of course, by that time, the machines revolution will have happened and we'll be much more interested in starting a 'Butlerian Jihad' than getting a good sound from headphones.
 
(*Worries if the word 'Jihad' has put him on some sort of watchlist*)

Do they allow headphones in Guantanamo?

 

[idletime1213]

Quote:

I think the best way to judge the phones is how closely they reproduce the real sounds of instruments in the studio before they are ever touched by folks in the mixing booth in digital format. Graphs and charts and numbers are great math, but ultimately tell a very shallow and oft times false story.

Now experience with what real instruments sound like in person is limited for most people.

In my experience the D2000 reflect reality more accurately more often than the HD650, which tends to be more accurate to the digital mixed version of the music. Which is why it's a more clinical boring pair of cans. It does not reflect as well the raw reality, but a restrained interpretation of the person in charge of mixing.

When I listen to my music (from classical, soundtrack, to jazz, rock, pop) I want to feel like I'm there amongst the instruments, not in a booth. Others like to hear what the person in charge of mastering and mixing decided to convey.

 
I actually feel the opposite. The HD650 is a more natural sounding headphone to me. I find that despite it not being the best in terms of soundstage, detail or treble (as opposed to competitors like the DT880 and the K701, etc.), the biggest advantage it has is its timbre and naturalness which the Beyer and AKG fail to convey.
 

 

[sugarkang]

It is not possible to recreate raw reality. 
The best you could ever do is get as close to the person in charge of mixing.
What you are asking is for the headphone to reach beyond the recorded mix,
chosen by the sound engineer, and grab reality. 
That's impossible simply because subtle changes in EQ by the engineer affects the final recording.
So you cannot possibly ask the headphone to be smarter than the original recording.
 
Even then, there are problems with what we think of as "reality."
Is reality a quartet, without mic, in a living room?
Is it a concert hall where every instrument is mic-ed?
The original recording room affects acoustics as much as mic positioning. 
When an instrument is using a microphone, it is already defying "reality" by going through its own speakers. 
 
You cannot recreate reality.
You can only get to the sound engineer, and you will likely fail in that endeavor as well.
 
 
 
Quote:

It does not reflect as well the raw reality, but a restrained interpretation of the person in charge of mixing.

When I listen to my music (from classical, soundtrack, to jazz, rock, pop) I want to feel like I'm there amongst the instruments, not in a booth. Others like to hear what the person in charge of mastering and mixing decided to convey.

 

[Katun]

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You were a bit short, couldn't you write it longer?
 
no serious, nice review

Thank you. And just so you know, I did add the midrange section. Longer still?

 
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I'm glad you found what you were looking for, Katun.
 
Did you ever try the D5000? From what others have said, the D5000 are supposed to be even better than the D2000, and they are also around the same price of the HD650.

I've heard the D5000 is only inches better than the D2000 (although any improvement is accepted). D2000 still remains the best value in the series.
 
Quote:

Was just getting interested in the D2000. Awesome review. 

 How would you describe the weight of the D2000 on your head though? Would you say it's pretty light-weight?

Yes and no. No headphone I've tried is exceptionally heavy, but the D2000 is on the top side of the weight spectrum. It's a slightly heavier headphone, but still feels great when on your head. The only probably is after about an hour, then you can really start to feel the headband. This partially may be due to the weight, or maybe it's all just because of my super sensitive head! Their weight makes them feel very solid though.
 
Quote:

never heard the D2000, but from what i have read over and over again on here: HD650 > D2000 when it comes to the mid-range. some have also claimed the D2000's bass to sound loose and flabby.

That's all I hear about the D2000's bass. I heard it *needs* an amp to control the bottom end. Not so. I find the bass simply spectacular, and it rarely ever steps out of line. In fact, if I didn't mention it in the review, I believe it is the "best" bass I've heard in terms of impact, depth, and quality. Very, very nice bass.
 
Quote:

Good review.  You reminded me of another reason why I parted ways with the HD-650 back in the day. 
The fact that it's a far away or boring can.
 
My evaluation was about 5 years ago, so I just reordered it.
I'm looking for a large soundstage, so I'm wondering if my listening preferences have changed enough.
 
Anyway, these are both on my list to get.  Do you think it's a good thing to own both?
Because I'm no longer looking for one headphone to do it all.
Really I'm looking for headphones to do certain things better than all other headphones. 

It depends. If you have money to burn, I think it's great to own both. HD650 is just a good headphone to own period, as I've never heard a headphone quite like it. Same can be said with the D2000. For me, I'm just using an "all around" headphone right now, as I don't have the funds for a headphone for every genre!

 
Quote:

Very nice review, well detailed. However I think it would be better to not put definitives such as "sounds better" since it's really a subjective thing. For example, I found the HD650 mids, timbre and sense of realism to blow away the D2000, which I found a tad too sibilant. 

I didn't find anything that the HD650 did to "blow away" the D2000. Yes, the mids were better, but we aren't taking huge number here. Most would just glance over it at first listen, like I did, if you don't specifically look for it. As for realism, some of the songs I tested, the D2000 did indeed sound more "real" then the HD650, so I wouldn't call either one a winner in that regard. But then again, bottom line is they both sound realistic and they both sound great in general.

 

[GeorgeGoodman]

Nice review, Katun! Have you considered modding your D2000s or getting someone to mod them for you? That seems to be a pretty popular thing to do around here. Also, I thought the HD650 was a boring can when I listened to it as well. Warp08 states that this is because of the cable and says a TWag cable opens up the headphone and transforms it. I hope to hear the combo soon and see what I hear. Keep in mind the Twag cable is $425, which is more than the can it self.
 
I know I just suggested two pretty expensive things to try that you may not even like and are very expensive unless you do it yourself, so you are free to ignore it. just enjoy the closed cans with the nice bass and tipped up treble, as that is my sound as well. Music is so much fun that way. I am town between these and the Ultrasone Pro 900s, but I have been wanting to get the Pro 900s for a while and think I am leaning towards them.

 

[Katun]

Quote:

I am town between these and the Ultrasone Pro 900s, but I have been wanting to get the Pro 900s for a while and think I am leaning towards them.

Well, I can give you my impressions when they come. Hopefully that can help you decide.

 

[GeorgeGoodman]

Quote:

Quote:

I am town between these and the Ultrasone Pro 900s, but I have been wanting to get the Pro 900s for a while and think I am leaning towards them.

Well, I can give you my impressions when they come. Hopefully that can help you decide.

Awesome!

 

 

[Dopippen45]

i chose the d2k's since they are about $100 cheaper than the hd650s and found them at a bargain through head-fi posts....my wallet hasn't felt the same ever since discovering this place 

 

[idletime1213]

I guess I am just not a fan of U-shaped headphones, seeing as I preferred the sound of the mid-centric D1001 to the D7000 (even if the D7k was technically better in all aspects).

 

[miloxo]

 
 
Quote:

Not only are there no notches or any sort of way to tell how far it’s been pulled out, but it’s very stiff and won’t come out with an easy tug. You won’t really know how far each side is pulled out, so you will have to just guess by eyeing it.

 
 
Quote:

[size=9.0pt]The swivel on the HD650 is slightly strange as well, as it doesn’t really swivel -- at first. HD650 owners will know that that the headband can turn a bit forward and backward on a “point” that will literally dig into the headband itself, providing a nonfluid and slightly forced rotating.[/size]

Strange,.. My HD650 definitely have notches (on my HD650s both sides are 5 notches down ) and also do have a swivel mechanism. The swivel mechanism can turn around for about 20~30 degrees each way without bending the headband.
 
Good review btw! Never heard the D2000s, but according to your review i will probably like my HD650s betterrrr, smoothness! 

 

[dirkpitt45]

I noticed you'd had the m50s a while back; which (the 650 or d2000) would be closer in sound signature to the m50s?
 
I'm loving the m50s with a millet starving student amp, but the DBA-02s are so much more detailed and more refined (although much less bass and sound stage). I also have the MS1s, which I hardly use anymore tbh. The highs are too harsh, which is what worries me about the D2000s. I'm sure I'd love the HD650s, but the D2000s are closed and more in my price range  :/