[elnero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mshan Any comments on those forums on if / how the DA10 compares sonically to the Lavry Blue?

Not much that I've read. This the only thing I remember reading offhand. Quote:

The sound will be very similar. The design of the DA10 is completely new, but the basic approach and design philosophy is the same, especially in terms of the sonics. I would choose the blue for multi channel applications in a LavryBlue chassis. The black does offer some additional features - volume control, coaxial input and optical (toslink, light pipe). If you have a Blue, and need more channels, I would add blue DA cards. If you need the volume control feature, I would opt for the black. If you must have optical, I would go with the black, the blue does not have optical. If you need an RCA (coaxial), you can use either (the blue can be made to receive coaxial with a simple $10-$15 XLR to RCA adaptor. The black can receive RCA directly. If you need a headphone, the black is the choice.... Regards Dan Lavry

It should be noted that contrary to many posts I've read as stated above the Black is not just a Blue in a different package but a completely new design.

 

[chrisfromalbany]

Quote:

Originally Posted by applebook Not worth the money as compared to what? The Lavry, which is a brand new product and isn't heads and heels above a more than 3-year-old design?

As we all know the platform was refresher since that time and it was based on buying the DAC1 at its current price. Maybe 3 years ago it would have been worth it for me but now it isn't.
Quote:

Originally Posted by applebook Again, the DAC1 has been around for a long time, so even if it's now displaced at the $1k range (and it really hasn't been clearly beaten), I don't see how you can claim that it's "quickly outdated."

Again quickly outdated would be if I bought "DAC1" 3 months ago and I read this thread. I would have the itch to upgrade. I think "DAC1" is a very good DAC but now there is something out that may be better. That to me is pretty quick.
Quote:

Originally Posted by applebook You made the comparison between the DAC1's value vis-a-vis "expensive amps," and I point out that the value of the DAC1 has held up far better than most, if not all, high-end amps.

And again my argument relates to a longer period of time. Board swiping statements like "better than most, if not all, high-end amps". Are generally wrong. I watch your aruments they tend to be unsubstantiated. There have been amps that have appreciated during this time period.

 

[elmoe]

Lets make something clear, it seems to me like that new Lavry DAC beats the DAC1 by a fair margin, IMHO if people like Iron Dreamer, grandenigma1, ferbose etc think so it most likely is the truth for me as I usually agree with most of these people when I read their opinions about gear I've extensively heard.

Another thing, saying the DAC1 beats most hi-end expensive amplifiers is really preposterous. The DAC1's internal amps are IMHO not any better than a cmoy, and as far as the DAC+amp combo goes, its not very fair comparing it to amplifiers which dont have a DAC inside. Actually, not only is it not fair but its ridiculous as you're not comparing two products which can be put into the same category.

 

[elmoe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by applebook 6-moons is fairly well respected, right? Here's what they have to say about the DAC1's alleged "distortion" in HF: "he Benchmark DAC's calling card is crystalline clarity and a 'forward' shift into the transient field of each tone. This makes for an incisive, slightly edgy demeanor, edgy here not as though leading by the treble but by emphasizing leading edges over the subsequent bloom. The question simply comes down to your system's core temperature. Ice water on a winter day will drop your temperature like a rock while, on a high-desert summer day, it's the best and cheapest feel-good medicine extant. This DAC tells it as it is in a very factual and precise matter. Even if I hadn't seen the measurements by now, I'd not be surprised to find them stellar. It sounds that way. Whether you find that refreshingly uncomplicated and admirable or a bit bland and sterile depends on how you view these things." I've bit my tongue and said pretty much nothing when Iron Dreamer has consistently and dogmatically delcared the DAC1's treble to be distorted because I know that I'm not into "calling people out," but if he truly were unbiased, he would never have tried to sell his DAC1 even before his shoot-out meeting. It's very clear that he had already gotten tired of the product and was prepared to buy something else, anything else, and the Lavry and Aqvox just came along. I don't want to embarrass anyone, but if there is a question as to whether I have evidence to back up my claim above, then PM me, and I'll forward the message. As for being labelled an evangelist for the DAC1, I'm just trying to bring some balance into threads like these that have gone the opposite extreme of degrading the product as nothing more than a marketing fraud. My responses have been constructive because Iron Dreamer has raised many issues: for one thing, his choice of headphones to use with the three DACs has been held in question. I personally feel that a slightly analytical DAC coupled with a bright can is not synergystic but have made no comments up until Iron Dreamer's rant against akwok's SA5000 remarks.

One last thing, FYI, Iron Dreamer is the person who's actually said the most positive things about the DAC-1 ever since its been out, he even made a great review about the unit in which he praised it extensively.

You have to understand that just because we really like a unit doesnt mean there is no downside to it. The DAC-1 is still the best source under 3000USD I've heard, but having heard it for so long and having tried it in many different rigs, I can say that the highs are IMHO a downside as they're too analytical and that results in slight distortion. What is meant here is that the highs are actually quite good, but they're far from natural sounding.

If you enjoy guitar solos for example, you'll love the DAC's highs. If you're into Charles Mingus however, the trumpets will be a bit harsh on your ears. It's a matter of preference, but the downside still exists, even if for your ear and music collection it is suitable.

Some of us having very large music collections and listening to a wide variety of artists and genres, it seems normal to me that we, after extended use of the DAC-1, would want some genres to sound a bit more natural in the highs.

 

[mshan]

"the highs are IMHO a downside as they're too analytical and that results in slight distortion. What is meant here is that the highs are actually quite good, but they're far from natural sounding."

Do you think this is the result of distortion from the D/A conversion (e.g. I read somewhere that someone felt that "asychronous" was not as musical as "synchronous") or just the result of the "cheap" solid state RCA output stage of the DAC-1 (i.e. solid state grit or grain)?

And how does that compare with it's headphone output with the Sennheiser HD650?

Have you also tried Cardas Golden Cross with your DAC-1? It seems like it would be the perfect complement to your concerns about the DAC-1's overall sound.

 

[fjf]

This thread WAS very interesting, comparing three good DACs, until some people felt dissapointed that THEIR dac was not "the best". We all would learn someting (or not, that is the choice of the reader) IF only the people that heard two or three of them posted impressions. The rest of it is just emotional garbage, worth nothing as information for the community.

 

[Ferbose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jashugan Lets make something clear, it seems to me like that new Lavry DAC beats the DAC1 by a fair margin, IMHO if people like Iron Dreamer, grandenigma1, ferbose etc think so it most likely is the truth for me as I usually agree with most of these people when I read their opinions about gear I've extensively heard.

I never said Lavry sounds better than Benchmark.
I thought they sounded equally good at the So-Cal meet.
I liked AQVOX less because at most settings it sounds worse than these two.
But it was a brief comparison (single-blinded), so don't hold me accountable for that.
The three all sound different, but it is hard to tell which one is more pleasant or which one is more accurate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jashugan Another thing, saying the DAC1 beats most hi-end expensive amplifiers is really preposterous. The DAC1's internal amps are IMHO not any better than a cmoy, and as far as the DAC+amp combo goes, its not very fair comparing it to amplifiers which dont have a DAC inside. Actually, not only is it not fair but its ridiculous as you're not comparing two products which can be put into the same category.

Even RSA Hornet beats DAC1's internal amp--no doubt about that. DAC1's amp is fast, dead quiet, but a bit edgy. XLR output is smoother when used as a heapdhone amp. Then again, didn't Edwood say Lavry's amp is hissy? Edit: This was a misunderstanding on my part, he was talking about Iriver player in that post. Those who heard Lavry's amp all say it is fine. DAC1's amp is great for driving Grados to my ears, though.

 

[grandenigma1]

Well with the cost of the Golden Cross you could go on out an pick up another DAC to fix that fault too

All I am going to say is those of you defending other gear without having heard it either try to track it down and give a listen or wait a few months for initial reviews to pop up. Lavry and Benchmark have two very different design and implementation philosophies and while I love my Lavry there are still a few aspects of the DAC1 that could warrant its purchase (such as upsampling above 96 as Lavry is adamantly against doing so) Lastly, not to speak poorly of the DAC1, but it is getting quite old and there are certainly many new DACs out there that can give it a run for the money now. It wouldn't surprise me to see Benchmark working on a replacement for it.

 

[Jahn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mulveling Why do people feel the need to compare gear they haven't heard? This has got to stop.

In the words of Neko-chan, "Bing Bong!" Which translates to "you got that right!"

 

[elnero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferbose Then again, didn't Edwood say Lavry's amp is hissy?

I'd like more information on this if it's true.

 

[Jahn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjf This thread WAS very interesting, comparing three good DACs, until some people felt dissapointed that THEIR dac was not "the best". We all would learn someting (or not, that is the choice of the reader) IF only the people that heard two or three of them posted impressions. The rest of it is just emotional garbage, worth nothing as information for the community.

Yep! I take no offense when, for instance, Romanee prefers the Hornet over my AE-1. Hey, he spells out his reasons well, I have no reason to doubt his ears or experience, and it doesn't detract from my enjoyment from either amp. In other words, if I start souring on the AE-1 because someone else doesn't like it, I'm not trusting my own ears. And when I start souring on the Hornet because folks think it beats my amp, again has nothing to do with trusting my own ears. I love being a subjectivist - if it sounds better, it IS better, hehe. And I have heard better amps than the AE-1, and I've heard better amps than the Hornet. But does that mean I start attacking others' opinions and my own opinions as well? That would be silly. We should just chat about what we like and don't like about the sound, and put it in context of price and convenience and usage with other things in the chain, etc. and leave the flamebait to the trolls.

 

[grandenigma1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elnero I'd like more information on this if it's true.

I cant say ive ever noticed that on my DA10 but I will have to take a closer look... Ive been mainly using the balanced outputs.

 

[elnero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grandenigma1 I cant say ive ever noticed that on my DA10 but I will have to take a closer look... Ive been mainly using the balanced outputs.

Thanks, that would be greatly appreciated zach.

 

[slwiser]

How does the new Stello DA100 compare with these high end dacs?

 

[Jahn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by slwiser How does the new Stello DA100 compare with these high end dacs?

We had a Stello at the minimeet here in NYC, check the meet impressions thread. We didn't compare them to either the Benchmark or Lavry, but it did have a shot against a modded ART DI/O, a modded Grace m902, and a bone stock unburned Sony SACD player. Go check out the comparos, it came out of it ok, especially considering being a stock model.