[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

12-20 amp isolation transformer is the way go go. Cheap oneac units off ebay do nicely. Much better then straight to wall. Clean power+steady voltage+not limiting current.

Biggie.

 

[Jon L]

The true test of a power conditioner is to live with it for a while, then go back to not using it.

Many power conditioners will do "something" and change the sound enough that you might think there is improvement, but most of them prove to do more harm than good, which is most easily revealed when you take away the conditioner.

If you are on a tight budget and want to plug in just the digital front end, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a simple, oversized isolation transformer. Forget all those "isolation transformers" that have actually tons of other parts, mostly caps, as RFI filters.

Digital gear responds very well, synergistically, to isolation transformers, but it's much more tricky to supply juice to analogue gear like preamp. Big amps are an absolute bear to power correctly, and in most cases, they should be plugged directly into the wall with some nice AC outlets.

 

[00940]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Len Yep. A properly designed conditioner should have similiar parts. Problem is, the power supply of most components aren't "properly designed" either because of lazy engineering or (more commonly) due to cost issues. I wouldn't expect any sub-$3,000 component to incorporate anything remotely equivalent.

It's really not a matter of cost. Loosy engineering, rather. I've opened very cheap power amps, tuners or cdp having more of an input filter. Most of the cost of the hydra is in enclosure and connectors, not in the filtering elements, those cost pennies.

 

[Len]

When you've got a target market value of $1,000 for your amp, cost certainly is some consideration. Depending on various factors, a manufacturer usually has to charge anywhere from three to eight times the cost of raw parts to turn a profit. That leaves very little in your budget for even $2 "luxury" parts, let alone premium parts (high end buses, breakers, resistors, IEC, wiring, etc.) and processes (cyro, etc.)

 

[00940]

Only if you consider them luxury. When I'm saying I've seen such filters in some amps, I'm speaking of power amps retailling for way less than 1000€.

Anyway, little trick for people willing to diy such filters without spending anything : open a broken computer PS. You'll find such caps and varistor at the input.

 

[JaGWiRE]

Belkin pf60? (google and froogle, prices can be found rather low.)

 

[Scrith]

In the PS Audio forums, someone asked what the difference between something like the Shunyata Hydra and the PS Audio P300/P500/P1000 re-generators was (and why the PS Audio units generate some heat, while the Hydra remains cool). The head guy at PS Audio (who is generally a pretty friendly, open-minded, open-to-criticism kind of guy who posts daily at the PS Audio forums) had this to say:

Quote:

There's no question that the Shunyata has no heat and the PS does. In this they are absolutely correct. There's nothing, I mean absolutely nothing measurable about the Shunyata's effect on the AC waveform that we can see. No noise reduction, no cleaning of the power, no waveform benefit, nothing. Zero, nada. What goes in appears to come out exactly the same. So, the fact that it is stone cold is not surprising. If it is doing something or performing some benefit it escapes our measurements and ears and I would love to be shown what we are missing. They publish no specs. The Power Plant on the other hand does make heat. It is far less efficient than theirs. Without question. However, it's benefits are measurable and audible. It reduces distortion by a magnitude, it cleans the waveform and it regulates the power. What goes in absolutely does not come out the same.

 

[Len]

PS Audio's response is a bit disengenious. I'd love to hear his comments on PS Audio's UO (now called humbusters) or UPC, both of which are generate no detectable heat during operation and have no published specs that I'm aware of.

I've owned two Power Plants. They are well built and have high parts-to-MSRP value. However, suffice it to say: I will not be employing PPs any more because the measurable and audible differences (I can confirm the latter assertion) never did anything good for musical reproduction in any of my systems.

I dislike Shunyata's pricing. I dislike PS Audio's sound.

 

[Solude]

The UO and UPC work as advertised problem is the chance you needing that type of filtering is next to nil. Here's the before and after for the UO:

 

[Len]

I don't see a UPC review. UPCs work differently then UO (more akin to what Shunyata employs), so it's unfair to extrapolate data from the UO measurements for the UPC.

The reviewer of that article concluded the UO made a signficant audible difference/improvement. The empircal data shows little improvement. We can debate the reasons for the discrepancy between perception and data set in another discussion.

I haven't seen many published measurements for power conditioners. However, to my ears, there are some that have a clear sonic impact, positive or negative. All I have to judge PLCs is what my ears and brain tell me. If any of it is psychoacoustics, so be it. It's what I have to live with on a daily basis, not some abstract plots

FWIW, the way I approach PLCs is probably different then most reviewers. While others are searching for positive improvements to gush over, I look for PLCs that have the least negative impact on the music. I want protection for my equipment with minimal sonic changes. Power Plants might benchtest well (i.e biggest measurabe change) and might be measurably quieter (though it should be noted they produced noticably hum whenever I connected SET amps to Power Plants .... a hum frequency that would vary depending on your PP's output frequency settings). But they do the music a disservice by dulling the presentation, and that is something I can't live with.

 

[morphsci]

I've used several units over the years and am now using a PS Audio P-500 and an extra UO. I plug my Raptor, G08,SCD333 and HEV-70 into the regenerated oulets while the MF Power Amp goes into the UO section of the P500. The other external UO goes into the last UO plug of the P500 and the TT and Dynavector P-75 go into that. After listening this way for several months and then removing the P500 and UO and listening for another month I have no plans of removing the P-500 in the near future.

For those worried about power constriction all I can say is that my power amp never seemed constrained whether plugged into the P500 UO section or straight in the wall. However, there was a much cleaner background and more depth with the P500 in the system. YMMV.

 

[Scrith]

For what it's worth, I really do hear a modest improvement in the "oomph" of the music I listen to with the P500. By the way, I dial up the voltage a bit to 118V, which seems to increase this effect compared to the standard 115V setting.

The ability to set the voltage, wave pattern (which also has an impact on sound...I prefer Multiwave2), and frequency (which are measurable in the outgoing power signal) are another thing that sets the Power Plants apart from the passive conditioners like the Hyrdra and UO (whose effect on the power signal doesn't appear to be very well documented).

By the way, I noticed the recently popular APC (makers of computer power backup systems) Audiophile unit has a standard output of 120V! That might explain some of the effects people are hearing with it (I wonder how it compares to a P1000 set to 120V?).

 

[adhoc]

What about this?

http://www.hagtech.com/pdf/conditioner.pdf

It seems to be a very reasonably priced power conditioner and is the author of the article is a well respected EE AFAIK.

 

[Scrith]

Read this and maybe you can build your own Shunyata Hydra?

 

[adhoc]

Thanks Scrith for the linkage.

Regarding the Shunyata Hydra Model 4:

Quote:

However, using my own two eyes (with vision corrected to 20/20) and comparing their claims to the actual models in front of me, I have to share my reaction to the above: this is just plain BS. 10 Audio is not nor is it intended to be a sensationalistic e-rag, purposely looking for dirt or inventing controversy. However, in my opinion, this is a pure and clear example of marketing hype that does not relate to the actual product.

Basically all there is to this 'power conditioner' is a varistor and a cap across the live/neutral. And all this for $695.

In other words, PURE SNAKE OIL. The people at Shunyata should be lined up against a wall and shot IMO.