crinacle's IEM FR measurement database
Apr 11, 2018 at 10:28 AM Post #766 of 1,335
back in my days holidays were for sleeping and playing video games. not for constructive efforts to share more accurate information. I tell you, youngsters theses days...
 
Apr 11, 2018 at 11:54 AM Post #767 of 1,335
@crinacle i own the westone w80 and im ready to pull the trigger on the u18t, from the looks of the graphs, the treble is subdued on the u18t?on the w80 with badly mastered songs i can hear some sibilance, would you say the u18t is very detailed in the 10k region?
 
Apr 11, 2018 at 11:56 AM Post #768 of 1,335
@crinacle i own the westone w80 and im ready to pull the trigger on the u18t, from the looks of the graphs, the treble is subdued on the u18t?on the w80 with badly mastered songs i can hear some sibilance, would you say the u18t is very detailed in the 10k region?

I wasn't a big fan of the W80. The U18t certainly can push treble, it's not dark by any means. Detailed, yeah sure, I'd call it that. Sibilance is something you'll have to find out for yourself; one thing I've learnt from this hobby is that everyone's perception of sibilance is unique.
 
Apr 12, 2018 at 4:42 AM Post #769 of 1,335
  • Roses Mini2: Warm neutral. A little soft on the transients but great for easy listening and very cohesive in its presentation. Docked points for staging

Would be nice if you could give some time to the Mini4. Got them couple of days ago and for usd200 I'm impressed with the full package. These are the most comfortable IEMs I've ever had , cable is very nice and they sound really good for the price. A winner in my book.
 
Apr 17, 2018 at 11:06 AM Post #770 of 1,335
For the seasoned measurement veterans out there, I'm considering doing a double-coupler procedure where I overlay IEC-specced curves with 0.4cc (small-volume) coupler curves to determine if peaks in high frequencies are due to resonance or inherent transducer output. Basically a ghetto version of IEC62886 in conjunction with my existing IEC60318-4 microphone so I don't have to drop thousands on a GRAS RA0402.

Thoughts? Is it perhaps too much for a layperson? Or should I just forgo the overlay and just be like "The xKHz peak is measurement error, please ignore".
 
Apr 17, 2018 at 11:20 AM Post #771 of 1,335
For the seasoned measurement veterans out there, I'm considering doing a double-coupler procedure where I overlay IEC-specced curves with 0.4cc (small-volume) coupler curves to determine if peaks in high frequencies are due to resonance or inherent transducer output. Basically a ghetto version of IEC62886 in conjunction with my existing IEC60318-4 microphone so I don't have to drop thousands on a GRAS RA0402.

Thoughts? Is it perhaps too much for a layperson? Or should I just forgo the overlay and just be like "The xKHz peak is measurement error, please ignore".

Thoroughness is a virtue :wink:
Anything you can do to improve accuracy, precision, repeatability and transparency should be welcomed.
 
Apr 17, 2018 at 1:39 PM Post #773 of 1,335
For the seasoned measurement veterans out there, I'm considering doing a double-coupler procedure where I overlay IEC-specced curves with 0.4cc (small-volume) coupler curves to determine if peaks in high frequencies are due to resonance or inherent transducer output. Basically a ghetto version of IEC62886 in conjunction with my existing IEC60318-4 microphone so I don't have to drop thousands on a GRAS RA0402.

Thoughts? Is it perhaps too much for a layperson? Or should I just forgo the overlay and just be like "The xKHz peak is measurement error, please ignore".
it doesn't cost much to try. I personally gave up real fast :'( . I can play with my various etymotics and ensure stable results on 2 or 3 mics+stuff that seem to indicate clear behaviors from the rig itself. but as soon as the IEMs have very limited insertion depth, very different tips, or vented vs not, what felt like stability goes out the window for me. well not completely, but certainly enough to kill all ideas of crossover compensation between rigs(which is why I tried in the first place).
but there is always the possibility that I just suck at being consistent or at finding the right reference plane. I honestly don't know. all I've done has been trial and error more than any actual knowledge.
 
Apr 17, 2018 at 1:41 PM Post #774 of 1,335
For the seasoned measurement veterans out there, I'm considering doing a double-coupler procedure where I overlay IEC-specced curves with 0.4cc (small-volume) coupler curves to determine if peaks in high frequencies are due to resonance or inherent transducer output. Basically a ghetto version of IEC62886 in conjunction with my existing IEC60318-4 microphone so I don't have to drop thousands on a GRAS RA0402.

Thoughts? Is it perhaps too much for a layperson? Or should I just forgo the overlay and just be like "The xKHz peak is measurement error, please ignore".
I'm confused. Assuming the coupler is a reasonable representation of the ear canal (given the variations from person-to-person, there's every expectation that it's representative of somebody's ear canal), whether the x kHz peak is due to inherent transducer output or resonance should be immaterial, because in either case it would be experienced by a listener. So why would we call that an error? If we're saying those resonances wouldn't occur in reality, because we need a better hardware model of the ear canal that provides a better impedance BC for the acoustic waves, it's still not a measurement error. I'm sure I'm overlooking something. What is it?
 
Apr 17, 2018 at 1:56 PM Post #775 of 1,335
If we're saying those resonances wouldn't occur in reality, because we need a better hardware model of the ear canal that provides a better impedance BC for the acoustic waves, it's still not a measurement error. I'm sure I'm overlooking something. What is it?

Measurement error is a misleading term, agreed.
Maybe measurement artifact instead?

My understanding is that crinacle's proposal seeks to identify and quantify the contributions of peaks to an iem's spectrum.
i.e. the peak at X kHz is a resonant contribution of 4 dB above baseline and is due to coupler geometry.

Then again, I too may be missing something(s) :)
 
Apr 17, 2018 at 2:01 PM Post #776 of 1,335
If the purpose is to identify resonance peaks, that could be done by varying insertion depth within a single coupler, no? (And that could be useful information to prospective IEM owners, because they'd know they can also shift those peaks with shallower/deeper insertion.) But again, this isn't an error.

Is there another source of "error" I'm overlooking?
 
Apr 17, 2018 at 2:06 PM Post #777 of 1,335
I'm considering doing a double-coupler procedure where I overlay IEC-specced curves with 0.4cc (small-volume) coupler curves to determine if peaks in high frequencies are due to resonance or inherent transducer output.
I honestly don't think it's worth the extra work. The information that is most relevant is what FR the IEM delivers to an average ear - that includes resonant peaks from the closed ear entrance as well as the effects of different insertion depths. Knowing if certain aspects of the FR are due to the transducer or features of the interaction between ear canal and IEM is not really relevant in an everyday scenario. That's more relevant for designing IEMs than for reviewing or testing.
 
Apr 18, 2018 at 11:22 PM Post #778 of 1,335
Thoughts? Is it perhaps too much for a layperson? Or should I just forgo the overlay and just be like "The xKHz peak is measurement error, please ignore".

You have no idea how many times I've wished for this. Treble sensitive folks like me would really appreciate understanding the likely impact of those spikes.
 
Apr 18, 2018 at 11:25 PM Post #779 of 1,335
The information that is most relevant is what FR the IEM delivers to an average ear - that includes resonant peaks from the closed ear entrance as well as the effects of different insertion depths. Knowing if certain aspects of the FR are due to the transducer or features of the interaction between ear canal and IEM is not really relevant in an everyday scenario.

Is it possible resonances could be the effect of the coupler/tubing and not present when inserted into a real ear?
 
Apr 18, 2018 at 11:29 PM Post #780 of 1,335
whether the x kHz peak is due to inherent transducer output or resonance should be immaterial, because in either case it would be experienced by a listener.
would it though? are resonances solely the result of the air volume? If so, I'd say you're right. But I thought resonances are dependent on material type, volume, and geometry - probably other things I'm missing.

My point is, a perfectly nice cylinder really is nothing like an ear canal when you think about it.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top