[crinacle]

Haven't had any new opportunities to measure gear but here's some straight from @malvinviriya from the EE launch event in Singapore.

A disclaimer: these are not my measures but I can vouch for their accuracy to a reasonable degree, with potential errors in the higher spectrum of frequencies due to variations in measuring technique.

Empire Ears Bravado
Empire Ears Vantage
Empire Ears ESR
Empire Ears EVR
Empire Ears Nemesis
Empire Ears Legend X
Empire Ears Phantom

Initial curves look absolutely stellar for the ESR, EVR, Nemesis and Legend, as do their subjective impressions from my friends at the event. Itching for a chance to get my ears on these beasts.

 

[crinacle]

Right and since I'm here, here's the data for my new toys:

Rhapsodio Zombie
Soranik SK3

Impressions will of course be posted in my other thread.

 

[goodvibes]

Haven't had any new opportunities to measure gear but here's some straight from @malvinviriya from the EE launch event in Singapore.

A disclaimer: these are not my measures but I can vouch for their accuracy to a reasonable degree, with potential errors in the higher spectrum of frequencies due to variations in measuring technique.

Empire Ears Bravado
Empire Ears Vantage
Empire Ears ESR
Empire Ears EVR
Empire Ears Nemesis
Empire Ears Legend X
Empire Ears Phantom

Initial curves look absolutely stellar for the ESR, EVR, Nemesis and Legend, as do their subjective impressions from my friends at the event. Itching for a chance to get my ears on these beasts.

Wow. They sure do. EVR looks like it may be in the running for the next neutral reference. looks a lot like the PP8. If had a bit more solid focus and black... Those curves are what I think of as controlled voicing by a proficient source. Really well done.

 

[dc655321]

Haven't had any new opportunities to measure gear but here's some straight from @malvinviriya from the EE launch event in Singapore.

A disclaimer: these are not my measures but I can vouch for their accuracy to a reasonable degree, with potential errors in the higher spectrum of frequencies due to variations in measuring technique.

Empire Ears Bravado
Empire Ears Vantage
Empire Ears ESR
Empire Ears EVR
Empire Ears Nemesis
Empire Ears Legend X
Empire Ears Phantom

Initial curves look absolutely stellar for the ESR, EVR, Nemesis and Legend, as do their subjective impressions from my friends at the event. Itching for a chance to get my ears on these beasts.

What are the odds of a measurement problem with the Phantom?
The couple of impressions/reviews I've read praise the "extension at both ends", but this falls off a cliff, particularly the treble.
Really dark...

@flinkenick does the measurement here for the Phantom match with your voicing of this iem and your listening experience?

 

[crinacle]

What are the odds of a measurement problem with the Phantom?
The couple of impressions/reviews I've read praise the "extension at both ends", but this falls off a cliff, particularly the treble.
Really dark...

@flinkenick does the measurement here for the Phantom match with your voicing of this iem and your listening experience?

I can attest to accuracy up to 6k, I should get the same shape with my own coupler up till then. Beyond that, shaky ground.

Phantom looks to be a little too thick for me. And I say "looks". Clearly I haven't heard any of the new EE stuff yet.

 

[flinkenick]

Hi yeah Crin and I have been through this a couple of times so I'll keep it brief. I've seen graphs in the database that come very close to measurements from high end systems. I've also seen graphs that bare little to no resemblance. Like I've said before, the large majority of graphs should have bumps and peaks throughout the frequency response. If it is such a flat line that gradually rolls off, the chance is likely it's going to be the latter.

This measurement has no similarities whatsoever to the actual graph, neither in the midrange nor treble. It's as close to the Phantom as it is to any other random earphone. To be completely honest I'm a little bit surprised you guys are trying to infer its sound from a graph looking like this, but I guess that's just the allure of seeing a measurement.

 

[crinacle]

Hi yeah Crin and I have been through this a couple of times so I'll keep it brief. I've seen graphs in the database that come very close to measurements from high end systems. I've also seen graphs that bare little to no resemblance. Like I've said before, the large majority of graphs should have bumps and peaks throughout the frequency response. If it is such a flat line that gradually rolls off, the chance is likely it's going to be the latter.

This measurement has no similarities whatsoever to the actual graph, neither in the midrange nor treble. It's as close to the Phantom as it is to any other random earphone. To be completely honest I'm a little bit surprised you guys are trying to infer its sound from a graph looking like this, but I guess that's just the allure of seeing a measurement.

Could also be due to variations in individual units. At any case I should (hopefully) be getting some demos of EE's lineup, so I can send them through both my DIY portable rig and my IEC60318-4 system and have it settled then.

For now, since you're one of the chief inspirations for the Phantom's sound, I (and so should everyone else) will take your word that that particular graph is inaccurate for now. Perhaps a faulty unit at the EE launch event, perhaps incorrect measurement technique, who knows.

 

[malvinviriya]

To be completely honest I'm a little bit surprised you guys are trying to infer its sound from a graph looking like this, but I guess that's just the allure of seeing a measurement

To be completely honest I'm a little bit surprised you think we do that. The graphs are here just as a small chunk of reference of what may be. Of course by comparing databases to databases it may not be wholly accurate. I'm sure you're tired of hearing this schtick too.

I wholly realise my measurement setup is not the most accurate setup in the world, especially with the upper treble region as it seems to be the weak point of the Dayton IMM-6 mic. That said, I've tried the Phantom firsthand for quite a while before actually doing the measurement and unfortunately I can't wholly agree with the review. I'm mildly disappointed even.

You're a far more experienced reviewer with more ear time than I do, why worry about my $30 piece of equipment and some green lines over a grey background? Regardless of what my squiggles produce, I still take your reviews to heart more than my mic says. I chose the UE18+ because of your review.

Perhaps I should be more wary now though.

 

[Overkill Red]

To be fair, while the graph for the ESR looks pretty alright (close to what I heard today and yesterday at Canjam), I feel that the graph for the Legend is kinda off (for one, that graph does not show how much juicy thicc bass it has)(A lot of bass. Really.)

I hope people learn to look at graphs for a general idea yet not treat them so seriously until you've heard them. A box of cookies wouldn't be a complete package without a box, and vice versa (???)

Or why would you consider having only cookies or only milk when you could have both? (???)

 

[crinacle]

To be fair, while the graph for the ESR looks pretty alright (close to what I heard today and yesterday at Canjam), I feel that the graph for the Legend is kinda off (for one, that graph does not show how much juicy thicc bass it has)(A lot of bass. Really.)

Through my journey in reviewing and measuring IEMs I've found that hybrids have more perceived bass than what is shown on graphs. Approximately 5dB extra perceived volume depending on the crossover point and whatnot. An interesting observation that many measurbators share with me but we haven't got a clue as to what property in hybrids in particular makes this so.

Or why would you consider having only cookies or only milk when you could have both? (???)

I have the milk but no cookies I want the cookie

 

[Brooko]

Through my journey in reviewing and measuring IEMs I've found that hybrids have more perceived bass than what is shown on graphs. Approximately 5dB extra perceived volume depending on the crossover point and whatnot. An interesting observation that many measurbators share with me but we haven't got a clue as to what property in hybrids in particular makes this so.

Just a guess - but I'd suggest its the sub-bass where the DD will actually move air, whereas a BA won't.

 

[crinacle]

Just a guess - but I'd suggest its the sub-bass where the DD will actually move air, whereas a BA won't.

I mean if you want to get technical, even BAs "move air"... that's what sound is, basically. Moving air.

 

[james444]

Perhaps I should be more wary now though.

You probably should, not least for the fact that human hearing (as measured at eardrum level) varies a lot more than even $30 cheapo mics.

I haven't heard the Phantom, but to me this graph shows a slightly warm and thick sounding IEM, with smooth and non-fatiguing high range, but still sufficient treble presence and detail to not sound overly dark or muffled.

Tbh, I don't see much of an inconsistency between the measurement and this review. If anything, differences might be due to tips used and individual variation in hearing.

 

[Glebuzzz]

Through my journey in reviewing and measuring IEMs I've found that hybrids have more perceived bass than what is shown on graphs. Approximately 5dB extra perceived volume depending on the crossover point and whatnot. An interesting observation that many measurbators share with me but we haven't got a clue as to what property in hybrids in particular makes this so.

It's all about the time, I guess. DDs can hold the same level of signal for a longer time. BAs most of the time "just clap" (bad term to describe it). It's very good for HF when system need to change levels faster, but on LF it will lead to less "mass" or "monumentality" in sound.
It can be seen in innerfidelity reports. BAs and most of multi-BAs system will have something like rise-peak-fall on square wave graphs. On the other hand most of the DDs and hybrids will have rise-plato-fall.
Of course it's square wave and music doesn't have this type of signals but still.

 

[Brooko]

I mean if you want to get technical, even BAs "move air"... that's what sound is, basically. Moving air.

Sorry - missed the word "more". But I thought you would still have understood. I shall be more careful next time ........