[Mooses9]

Are you allergic to science or something?

se

LOL
 
il vostro mi sta uccidendo!

 

[Steve Eddy]

No, not at all, I like science. But I have nothing to contribute in this context which would be of value for the Sound Science forum. I was there for a while some time ago, and by hindsight it was fruitless.

So then what was the point of your posting in a thread having to do with measurements?

se

 

[Speedskater]

We know nothing of the other properties, such as wire gauges used, construction geometry, dielectric materials, etc. But if you want to try and look at differences between copper and silver, then the ONLY difference should be the metal itself. Everything else about the cable such as wire gauge, construction geometry, dielectric materials, etc. need to be IDENTICAL for both cables. Otherwise, you're changing variables OTHER than just the metal used and you can't say you're comparing copper to silver.
se

Well everything else can't be identical.  If the wire gauge is the same then the resistance will be different. If the resistance is the same then the wire gauge and other factors will be different.
On the subject of IDENTICAL - with modern test equipment no two cables (even the Left & Right in a pair) will have identical physical properties.  But as I wrote above (post #14) the differences between physical properties of copper and silver are about the same as a small different in the length of a copper cable.

 

[Steve Eddy]

Well everything else can't be identical.  If the wire gauge is the same then the resistance will be different. If the resistance is the same then the wire gauge and other factors will be different.

That's not what I meant by everything else being identical.

We already know going in that the resistance won't be the same owing to silver's slightly higher conductivity. That's the one undisputed difference between copper and silver. But if you want to see if there's anthing ELSE, everything needs to be identical in terms of wire gauge, construction geometry, dielectric properties, etc. If anything differs, then you've got two or more variables instead of one, i.e. copper vs. silver.

On the subject of IDENTICAL - with modern test equipment no two cables (even the Left & Right in a pair) will have identical physical properties.

You'll even get SOME small differences between two measurements of the EXACT same cable due to measurement "noise."

That's where averaging comes in. You do say 100 measurements and then average the results. If you do this with two otherwise identical cables and come up with any differences, you can pretty confidently chalk it up to manufacturing tolerances.

But as I wrote above (post #14) the differences between physical properties of copper and silver are about the same as a small different in the length of a copper cable.

Yes. But some seem to believe that there is a mysterious "something else" going on.

se

 

[JaZZ]

So then what was the point of your posting in a thread having to do with measurements?

 
I'm interested in measurements – to compare them with my listening impressions or e.g. get a better sense of the EQ characteristics of the FiiO X5 like recently. I think you have a too narrow view of my audio approach.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

...But some seem to believe that there is a mysterious "something else" going on.

 
Well, as long as nobody has a reasonable theory, it's indeed a mystery how different cables with virtually identical measuring values can sound different...

 

[Steve Eddy]

Well, as long as nobody has a reasonable theory, it's indeed a mystery how different cables with virtually identical measuring values can sound different...

There's no mystery as to how that can happen to anyone who has any understanding of human hearing.

se

 

[JaZZ]

There's no mystery as to how that can happen to anyone who has any understanding of human hearing.

 
That's the approach of which the Sound Science forum is full of: certainties. True science is open-minded.

 

[sonitus mirus]

  Quote:
 
Well, as long as nobody has a reasonable theory, it's indeed a mystery how different cables with virtually identical measuring values can sound different...

 
Do you have any reliable data to support this notion?   There are links in this forum that show there is no audible difference.  I would suspect that any testing conducted that proved otherwise was more than likely faulty or unreliable.

 

[Steve Eddy]

That's the approach of which the Sound Science forum is full of: certainties. True science is open-minded.

Um, where is the certainty in what I said?

I see you're in Switzerland. Do you understand what the English word "can" means in the context that I used it?

se

 

[JaZZ]

 
Do you have any reliable data to support this notion?   There are links in this forum that show there is no audible difference.  I would suspect that any testing conducted that proved otherwise was more than likely faulty or unreliable.

 

Um, where is the certainty in what I said?

I see you're in Switzerland. Do you understand what the English word "can" means in the context that I used it?

 
Your semantics can't hide the certainties you both carry in your minds. You'll find your playground in the Sound Science forum. This section isn't meant to prove anything, it's more about personal (listening) experience.

 

[Mooses9]

This thread has gotten out of control quickly whew.

 

[bfreedma]

 
Do you have any reliable data to support this notion?   There are links in this forum that show there is no audible difference.  I would suspect that any testing conducted that proved otherwise was more than likely faulty or unreliable.

 

Um, where is the certainty in what I said?

I see you're in Switzerland. Do you understand what the English word "can" means in the context that I used it?

 
Your semantics can't hide the certainties you both carry in your minds. You'll find your playground in the Sound Science forum. This section isn't meant to prove anything, it's more about personal (listening) experience.

If this thread is about personal listening experience, then the title really should be changed.

 

[Don Hills]

   
I'm interested in measurements – to compare them with my listening impressions or e.g. get a better sense of the EQ characteristics of the FiiO X5 like recently. I think you have a too narrow view of my audio approach.

 
In that case, let's look at your measurements. The frequency response measurements don't show anything that might account for an audible difference. Note especially the very close matching between the 3 results for each cable type, indicating that your test setup was likely performing OK. The phase response curves, at first glance, appear to indicate differences between copper and silver, but now note the big differences between the 3 sets of results for each cable. You should be getting all 3 results for each cable matching each other as they did for the frequency response. This indicates something wrong with your test setup. As Steve Eddy pointed out, the fluctuations occur in the region of the mains frequency, indicating that there might be some hum being injected into the setup. Maybe the silver cables aren't as well shielded as the copper cables, or they may have been laying closer to some piece of mains-powered equipment. You should consider re-doing the measurements and adjusting positions etc until you get consistent results for each cable.

 

[Steve Eddy]

Your semantics can't hide the certainties you both carry in your minds.

Your hypocrisy is so glaring it's painful. You speak of open minds, but yours is snapped shut like a bear trap.

se