[Chris J]

This is a hobby about enjoyment. Do what makes you happy. We don't participate in this hobby to feel guilty, be told we're wrong for what we are enjoyed or have our flaws, which are different from person to person pointed out.

Credit to everyone that this thread lasted 4 pages without turning sour. 

Just sayin'

 

[castleofargh]

you guys always turn that into "cables all sound the same" vs "cables sound different". you cannot compare the experience of someone who buy gears paying attention to specs, and someone buying gears because they though it sounded good.
 
 - the first one will always be careful to buy gears with specs that fit well the rest of the equipment, be it power, impedance(matching or bridging). anything that can improve fidelity and stability of the system.
that person can stick pretty much any cable in the mix and will get the same sound. because when you have a damping factor of 20 or more, the change from one cable to another will be negligible, and that's how it should be.
so that person will say that cables don't matter as long as they are made correctly for the intended purpose. also that person would never buy weird cable with metascience claims, avoiding all the strange stuff in the process.
 
 - the other person buying gears by hear may at some point in time buy a 150ohm amp or use a 1970 gear (or some professional stuff with kilos of ohm) and plug it into some modern stuff made for ipods. it usually doesn't get to the point where something breaks, but it's easy to imagine the system not performing as intended and lacking stability(it might very well be what sounded pleasant to the person).
in those situations we go from something not linear with one cable to something also non linear with another. the chances of both sounding different are much higher than when testing a system in it's optimal stability even with such a small thing as cable switching.
 
- another most obvious situation where messing with weird cables can alter the sound is with multidriver IEMs. they are low impedance stuff going often from 10ohm to 60ohm depending on the frequency. you can all imagine how easy it is to change the signature by changing the cable impedance. give some messed up cable with strange specs and the listeners will become a cable believer. simply because the signature will indeed change a great deal(I'm talking several db here sometimes).
so yes cables can change sound, but here is what I think about cables.
if the sound changes a lot by changing cables, then something is wrong(I include multidriver IEMs with messed up impedance responses as being wrong but you might not share my opinion on this):
1/ one of the cables is bad(it could be on purpose and very expensive but it would still be bad).
2/ or the gears have a problem, some ground troubles, some compatibility with the other gear, and some more...
 
having the same sound when changing cable is for me a sign that my system is well done. and that's my conclusion on cables.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  you guys always turn that into "cables all sound the same" vs "cables sound different". you cannot compare the experience of someone who buy gears paying attention to specs, and someone buying gears because they though it sounded good.
 
 - the first one will always be careful to buy gears with specs that fit well the rest of the equipment, be it power, impedance(matching or bridging). anything that can improve fidelity and stability of the system.
that person can stick pretty much any cable in the mix and will get the same sound. because when you have a damping factor of 20 or more, the change from one cable to another will be negligible, and that's how it should be.
so that person will say that cables don't matter as long as they are made correctly for the intended purpose. also that person would never buy weird cable with metascience claims, avoiding all the strange stuff in the process.
 
 - the other person buying gears by hear may at some point in time buy a 150ohm amp or use a 1970 gear (or some professional stuff with kilos of ohm) and plug it into some modern stuff made for ipods. it usually doesn't get to the point where something breaks, but it's easy to imagine the system not performing as intended and lacking stability(it might very well be what sounded pleasant to the person).
in those situations we go from something not linear with one cable to something also non linear with another. the chances of both sounding different are much higher than when testing a system in it's optimal stability even with such a small thing as cable switching.
 
- another most obvious situation where messing with weird cables can alter the sound is with multidriver IEMs. they are low impedance stuff going often from 10ohm to 60ohm depending on the frequency. you can all imagine how easy it is to change the signature by changing the cable impedance. give some messed up cable with strange specs and the listeners will become a cable believer. simply because the signature will indeed change a great deal(I'm talking several db here sometimes).
so yes cables can change sound, but here is what I think about cables.
if the sound changes a lot by changing cables, then something is wrong(I include multidriver IEMs with messed up impedance responses as being wrong but you might not share my opinion on this):
1/ one of the cables is bad(it could be on purpose and very expensive but it would still be bad).
2/ or the gears have a problem, some ground troubles, some compatibility with the other gear, and some more...
 
having the same sound when changing cable is for me a sign that my system is well done. and that's my conclusion on cables.

 
These are some very good points! Audio is so much more complex than many give it credit for.

 

[Roly1650]

These are some very good points! Audio is so much more complex than many give it credit for.

That's not at all what I got from that post. Audio is made more complex than it needs to be. IMO, Castleofargh put forward a clear and cogent thesis for keeping it simple and using common sense when choosing equipment.
Synergy was a word invented by someone who screwed up their choices.

 

[cel4145]

Synergy was a word invented by someone who screwed up their choices.

I love it when people on Head-Fi buy into synergy recommendations from others when it comes to dacs and amps matched with headphones (or dacs matched with amps). Everyone has different tastes in headphones, and people often describe them slightly differently even when they do like them. And then . . . . ALL OF A SUDDEN . . . the minute differences that amps and/or dacs make with a set of headphones making one a good match with them are transferable experiences to others. LOL

Talk about a place expectation bias comes into play.

 

[SunshineReggae]

It's okay for me if you're gonna say cables make a difference to you. That's fine. But you can't say that other people should expect to hear a difference too, simply because in reality, there is no actual proof that confirms that they make a difference. Which in turn of course makes me wonder why you would believe they make a difference.

 

[Music Alchemist]

That's not at all what I got from that post. Audio is made more complex than it needs to be. IMO, Castleofargh put forward a clear and cogent thesis for keeping it simple and using common sense when choosing equipment.
Synergy was a word invented by someone who screwed up their choices.

 
Keeping it simple can be a complicated process, unless you're already an expert.

 

[bigshot]

My theory is "Don't sweat the minuscule stuff." The differences between cables is so incredibly tiny, it just doesn't make a lick of difference. There are a bunch of things that make huge improvements in sound quality that few audiophiles take the time to do. Better to focus on what makes a difference than what doesn't.

 

[Claritas]

My theory is "Don't sweat the minuscule stuff." The differences between cables is so incredibly tiny, it just doesn't make a lick of difference.

I pretty much agree. I've heard small differences and I hear the same differences every time. But they're minor and not worth spending a lot of time and money on. I've seldom heard a bad cable--one that I wouldn't want to use. One of the few was an expensive SPC cable, so price isn't the issue. I'll buy a slightly more expensive cable if it's more durable and looks better. With headphone cables, comfort and noise bearing is important too.

 

[bigshot]

The smaller the difference, the more likely it's expectation bias. Better to focus on things that definitely improve sound.
 
Right now over in the headphone forum, folks are up in arms because they think that the difference between synthetic leather pads and leather pads of the exact same design make a big audible difference. Go figure!

 

[Currawong]

  My theory is "Don't sweat the minuscule stuff." The differences between cables is so incredibly tiny, it just doesn't make a lick of difference. There are a bunch of things that make huge improvements in sound quality that few audiophiles take the time to do. Better to focus on what makes a difference than what doesn't.

 
I think people do get their priorities the wrong way around on the forums. I've stuck to a formula for suggesting the two most important things are: What music one listens to, and how loud one listens. Though translating that into making choices is something I've yet to decide how best to describe, though I have a general idea.

 

[lin0003]

Once you have a very nice setup that you are happy with, then worry about cables. No point spending $500 on a cable if you have a $500 headphone. 
 
From my experience they do make a little difference though, but obviously you can do much better with your money, which is why you should only get expensive cables when your setup ia lready very good. 

 

[cjl]

  Once you have a very nice setup that you are happy with, then worry about cables. No point spending $500 on a cable if you have a $500 headphone. 
 
From my experience they do make a little difference though, but obviously you can do much better with your money, which is why you should only get expensive cables when your setup ia lready very good. 

From every properly controlled test though, they don't make any difference at all. Because of this, there's even no point spending $500 on a cable if you have a $500k set of speakers. Since this is sound science, those tests matter more than sighted anecdotes.

 

[Claritas]

From every properly controlled test though, they don't make any difference at all. Because of this, there's even no point spending $500 on a cable if you have a $500k set of speakers. Since this is sound science, those tests matter more than sighted anecdotes.

You're right that not a single very controlled test (so far as I know) has demonstrated a difference. You're wrong that Sound Science has some rules that previlege any form of evidence. While I'm at it: what's your anecdotal experience?

 

[blades]

You're right that not a single very controlled test (so far as I know) has demonstrated a difference. You're wrong that Sound Science has some rules that previlege any form of evidence. While I'm at it: what's your anecdotal experience?

 
That isn't fair.  The truth is that science does understand why people hear the inaudible.  The problem is that those invested in the inaudible want to protect their beliefs by rejecting the facts.  Lots of things in audio are audible and lots of things are inaudible.  We understand both and the causes of them clearly.