[Lan647]

Well I have been trawling posts, trying on everything I can looking for a portable on or over ear. I have been suffering from repeat ear infections despite scrupulous cleaning from iems, so I needed a solution.

I use HD-800 at home, and AKG K-550 at work, but both are a little large. The momentums seemed a good fit, but unfortunately they have gone the commercial route and overblown the bass a bit. Not as much as beats but enough to make the timing wooly. Timing is crucial for my music so that was disappointing as I respect Sennhieser. I was given a pair of B&W P5 (lucky me) but they are just bland: lack of resolution, rolled off and bloated. Not as bad as beats, but not good for the money.

I got a chance to listen to the P7, well run in. Much better than the P5s, with resolution and air. However who thought the great big bass punch exaggeration was a good idea? Sure it's impressive, but it ruins and otherwise potentially musical performance. Once again B&W loses sight of John Bowers' original vision. Something they lost along the way.

B&O H6 are nice. Nice is not good enough, as they are a little uninvolving, but pretty good. A bit dull.

KEF M500 get the vote from me, as they are quite involving and fun. Not fully neutral, but not doing all that attention seeking exaggerated bass. However as I like the AKG K-550, the 545 look very intriguing, and I haven't heard the NADs yet.

They is very much a flavour of the month thing here on head-fi, but with all the analysis, sometimes the music can be lost. Use a recording of questionable quality with a great performance when confirming you choice. You may be surprised by the winner.

 
Sorry but I'll have to disagree here. I've done a lot of A-B comparing between the Momentum, P7 and KEF m500 in my home and the P7 is certainly the most neutral and the one with the least exaggerated bass. Both the P7 and M500 are quite flat in the bass to my ears, but the bass of the M500 is just a tad more impactful and a tad less refined (a tad more "boomy"). 

 

[jagwap]

Sorry but I'll have to disagree here. I've done a lot of A-B comparing between the Momentum, P7 and KEF m500 in my home and the P7 is certainly the most neutral and the one with the least exaggerated bass. Both the P7 and M500 are quite flat in the bass to my ears, but the bass of the M500 is just a tad more impactful and a tad less refined (a tad more "boomy"). 

Fair enough. I wanted to like the P7, but the bass I'm talking about is verging on subsonic. It manifests itself well on the last Daft Punk album. Not usually my type of music, but it really shows the low hump. Yes the M500 does not appear as refined, but it is fat more transparent to the rythmic interplays. Few B&W products can do that since the founder died unfortunately. The only exception I remember was the first 801 nautilus.

Anyway, subjectivism is just that : subjective.

 

[Lan647]

Fair enough. I wanted to like the P7, but the bass I'm talking about is verging on subsonic. It manifests itself well on the last Daft Punk album. Not usually my type of music, but it really shows the low hump. Yes the M500 does not appear as refined, but it is fat more transparent to the rythmic interplays. Few B&W products can do that since the founder died unfortunately. The only exception I remember was the first 801 nautilus.

Anyway, subjectivism is just that : subjective.

 
I really think you should listen to the P7 again, make sure the fit is good. The bass you're talking about just doesn't match how the P7 plays it. 

 It has more bass than the HD 800 and K550 for sure, but it definitely doesn't have more than the M500. 

 

[starfly]

   
Sorry but I'll have to disagree here. I've done a lot of A-B comparing between the Momentum, P7 and KEF m500 in my home and the P7 is certainly the most neutral and the one with the least exaggerated bass. Both the P7 and M500 are quite flat in the bass to my ears, but the bass of the M500 is just a tad more impactful and a tad less refined (a tad more "boomy"). 

I would agree here. The P7 has a very tight bass, nothing bloated or boomy about it. And the sound overall has great PRaT, usually a sign of a well controlled bass.

 

[jagwap]

I really think you should listen to the P7 again, make sure the fit is good. The bass you're talking about just doesn't match how the P7 plays it.   It has more bass than the HD 800 and K550 for sure, but it definitely doesn't have more than the M500. 

Not mid bass sure, but below that.

I worked with another audio designer who tried doing this on an otherwise great amplifier he designed. It was much more subtle than the P7, but it spoiled it for me. He was unfortunately fairly hard of hearing, having learnt his art on guitar amps.

To me it sounds like a misaligned sub sat system. People tend to over cook them given the chance. When it's right, it becomes subtle.

Anyway, you can put it down to my sensitivity of these things if you like.

 

[Lan647]

 
I would agree here. The P7 has a very tight bass, nothing bloated or boomy about it. And the sound overall has great PRaT, usually a sign of a well controlled bass.

 
Exactly. 

 
 

Not mid bass sure, but below that.

I worked with another audio designer who tried doing this on an otherwise great amplifier he designed. It was much more subtle than the P7, but it spoiled it for me. He was unfortunately fairly hard of hearing, having learnt his art on guitar amps.

To me it sounds like a misaligned sub sat system. People tend to over cook them given the chance. When it's right, it becomes subtle.

Anyway, you can put it down to my sensitivity of these things if you like.

 
Sure the P7 has some extra heft to its bass relative to what's a hundred percent neutral, and if you're sensitive to that then I very much understand.
 
What confuses me is that you find the M500 to have less low-end, which is simply not true. 

 

[jagwap]

Exactly.   

Not less, but better aligned. This gives better PRaT as our other contributor puts it. The M500 is not perfect in this, but better than the P7 to my ears. The P7 is indifferent to rhythm, and the the M500 has some. The M500 is behind the K550 and why behind the HD800, but the best portable so far in this one important respect. Well important to me.

 

[starfly]

Not less, but better aligned. This gives better PRaT as our other contributor puts it. The M500 is not perfect in this, but better than the P7 to my ears. The P7 is indifferent to rhythm, and the the M500 has some. The M500 is behind the K550 and why behind the HD800, but the best portable so far in this one important respect. Well important to me.

You should try the Sony 7520. You might like it. Overall, it beats all these cans

 

[jagwap]

You should try the Sony 7520. You might like it. Overall, it beats all these cans

You may be right. They are a little large for portable, but I like my MDR EX1000 for PRaT, and the old MDR-D77s which died on me. None of them were neutral, but they were emotionally involving. It seems that there is someone at Sony who gets this, but they only do a few 'phones.

 

[Lan647]

Not less, but better aligned. This gives better PRaT as our other contributor puts it. The M500 is not perfect in this, but better than the P7 to my ears. The P7 is indifferent to rhythm, and the the M500 has some. The M500 is behind the K550 and why behind the HD800, but the best portable so far in this one important respect. Well important to me.

 
Again, I disagree. And I own both. Also, from memory, I disagree about the M500 being behind the K550. I won't say for sure on that one because I don't own the K550. 
 
But it appears we have a different view on what good sound is. I don't think the HD 800 is a good reference for example, it doesn't have what I would call a neutral or natural sound. Too bright, and not enough body to it. If you compare headphones to STAX, the best there is, then the HD 800 and K550 show their flaws.

 

[jagwap]

Double post

 

[Andrew_WOT]

 

Not less, but better aligned. This gives better PRaT as our other contributor puts it. The M500 is not perfect in this, but better than the P7 to my ears. The P7 is indifferent to rhythm, and the the M500 has some. The M500 is behind the K550 and why behind the HD800, but the best portable so far in this one important respect. Well important to me.

You should try the Sony 7520. You might like it. Overall, it beats all these cans

7520 are certainly more serious cans than P7, those felt like a toy in comparison, not to mention SQ difference.
But they are monitor cans, built for professional studios that meant to handle abuse, have accurate timbre, and deliver the most details out of the mix. They are smaller than K550 and just slightly bigger than MDR-1R, in fact with low profile they have quite stealthy look suitable for portable use.
Extremely efficient to drive and sound great out of ordinary DAP or phone.
With magnesium cups they are super lightweight and very comfortable, on par or better than MDR-1R.
The fact that B&H have them even cheaper than P7 makes them even more attractive.
The pictures are of Z1000 but they look the same except black yoke.
 

 

[bledig]

I've owned a DT1350 for a year and i liked it. But it always kept me in constant fear of accidentally pulling off my already receding hair ...again. Today i listened to P7 at the apple store...and it's great! And mostly it's so comfortable! I notice that i had to push it to full volume on the iphone to get a decent sound off it though...maybe i should bring my headphones and pico slim over to compare properly next week. 
 
oh thanks for the recommendation for Sony 7520. Many online review looks good, now i need to find a place to test it out. 

 

[starfly]

  I've owned a DT1350 for a year and i liked it. But it always kept me in constant fear of accidentally pulling off my already receding hair ...again. Today i listened to P7 at the apple store...and it's great! And mostly it's so comfortable! I notice that i had to push it to full volume on the iphone to get a decent sound off it though...maybe i should bring my headphones and pico slim over to compare properly next week. 
 
oh thanks for the recommendation for Sony 7520. Many online review looks good, now i need to find a place to test it out. 

Try B&H Photo, they tend to have it in stock.

 

[bledig]

Yeah i saw the site but i live in the netherlands unfortunately. btw i noticed a lot of recent reviews on the MDR-7520 but it was released 2 years ago didn't it?