[politbureau]

Received my PM-3 and M2 today and had a short period to compare with my T51i and M50x. A friend will also be bringing over his NAD HP50s and B&W P7 tomorrow for some additional comparisons.
 
I don't want to give a solid opinion yet, as the cans are new and I've only spent a few minutes A/Bing them, but my initial impressions very closely match MHs.
 
Here's my quick overview:
 
PM-3 has the most air and widest soundstage, though seems to lack a bit in dynamics
M2 sounds the most well rounded - everything I listened to sounded good, but not 'exciting'
T51i had the warmest, most 'interesting' sound, slightly above neutral, not v-shaped, but the least airy
M50x was hard to nail down - sweet bass, great tone... hard to fault anywhere, though I wasn't as excited about the sound
 
I'm currently burning in the PM-3 and M2 overnight to see how they may change. I think the PM-3s will benefit the most from this, as all the planars I've owned in the past changed significantly after 10-20h.
 
So far my personal opinion is split. I like the PM-3s as they sound the most like my HE-560s, but they're lacking something.. I want to say it sounds open but slightly recessed in some areas. I like the M2s as they sound good (if not great) out of the box with everything, though I'm not as impressed by the bass as others have reported. I like the T51i because the sound is just.. addictive. Warm, smooth, thick, but a just a tad closed in compared to the PM-3s in particular. The M50xs are like the M2s, great all rounders, and I liked the bass better.
 
More tomorrow!

 

[subguy812]

  Received my PM-3 and M2 today and had a short period to compare with my T51i and M50x. A friend will also be bringing over his NAD HP50s and B&W P7 tomorrow for some additional comparisons.
 
I don't want to give a solid opinion yet, as the cans are new and I've only spent a few minutes A/Bing them, but my initial impressions very closely match MHs.
 
Here's my quick overview:
 
PM-3 has the most air and widest soundstage, though seems to lack a bit in dynamics
M2 sounds the most well rounded - everything I listened to sounded good, but not 'exciting'
T51i had the warmest, most 'interesting' sound, slightly above neutral, not v-shaped, but the least airy
M50x was hard to nail down - sweet bass, great tone... hard to fault anywhere, though I wasn't as excited about the sound
 
I'm currently burning in the PM-3 and M2 overnight to see how they may change. I think the PM-3s will benefit the most from this, as all the planars I've owned in the past changed significantly after 10-20h.
 
So far my personal opinion is split. I like the PM-3s as they sound the most like my HE-560s, but they're lacking something.. I want to say it sounds open but slightly recessed in some areas. I like the M2s as they sound good (if not great) out of the box with everything, though I'm not as impressed by the bass as others have reported. I like the T51i because the sound is just.. addictive. Warm, smooth, thick, but a just a tad closed in compared to the PM-3s in particular. The M50xs are like the M2s, great all rounders, and I liked the bass better.
 
More tomorrow!

Your opinions closely align with mine on most the the hp's. It really isn't that the soundstage is wide with the PM-3 it is that the imaging and instrument separation is good, strange how they pull that off.  The M2 will make you say "these sound real good"  and smile. The PM-3 will make you smile in their "perfect" conditions. The T51p is the one I owned the longest because as you say it was an  interesting sound. The M50x was ok....not really so portable as some of the others, and while they claim to have made no change I swear they were tuned different than the M50. Musically, I kept going back to the M2 when I was A/B'ing it and the PM-3 and I still own the M2. I have owned the HP50's and really like them as well. I think the only one in this list I haven't listened too is the P7 and I always wanted too, it is just newer always came along.

 

[zazex]

Thanks for a great "quick survey" of all of these headphones.
Very clear and useful.  

 

[pietcux]

M2 is Momentum over ear?

 

[subguy812]

M2 is Momentum over ear?

It is an over ear. They also have an on ear version, that I have not heard but Peter has also reviewed. The 2 in the M2 is referring to 2nd generation.

 

[pietcux]

Did anyone already post the earpad measurements for the Sennheiser Momentum 2 over ear? That is all I need to shoot Amazon my order.

 

[Kabonfaiba]

Did anyone already post the earpad measurements for the Sennheiser Momentum 2 over ear? That is all I need to shoot Amazon my order.

 
I posted them in this thread but I guess it's not being found easily.
 



 

Originally Posted by Kabonfaiba /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Add another 5mm to the depth measurement, for the end of my ruler.

 
 
Also; even though the M2 pads are deeper than the X2, you have to take into account that the X2 pads are more rigid, and don't compress on-the-head as much as the M2 pads.
 
In reality, both ear pads are the same depth. The outside of my ears only just touch the drivers on both the M2 and X2.

 

[pietcux]

I have the Sennheiser HD 8 Dj on my head right now. The Momentum ear cups seem to be exactly that large as I need. The Dj has smaller cups.

 

[politbureau]

 
Your opinions closely align with mine on most the the hp's. It really isn't that the soundstage is wide with the PM-3 it is that the imaging and instrument separation is good, strange how they pull that off.  The M2 will make you say "these sound real good"  and smile. The PM-3 will make you smile in their "perfect" conditions. The T51p is the one I owned the longest because as you say it was an  interesting sound. The M50x was ok....not really so portable as some of the others, and while they claim to have made no change I swear they were tuned different than the M50. Musically, I kept going back to the M2 when I was A/B'ing it and the PM-3 and I still own the M2. I have owned the HP50's and really like them as well. I think the only one in this list I haven't listened too is the P7 and I always wanted too, it is just newer always came along.

Yep, sounds like we're on the same page! To be honest, the more I listen to these cans, the more conflicted I get on actual value... more on that in a sec.
 
I really want to like the PM-3s, but I'm worried if they do not improve with burn in that I'll be left with something that is close.. but not quite there.
 
I realize it's a lot to ask, but honestly none of these cans achieves the level of performance I get from other equal or lesser priced open phones. It does surprise (and disappoint) me that you have to spend a LOT more on closed cans to get entry-level open performance.
 
Sound considerations aside, the T51i is still the king of the portables for me - size, weight, comfort, isolation, build quality (durability) and it's slim profile on your head make it a clear winner over the rest, imo. Lacking a single-sided removable cable is it's only failing. Bear in mind I grew up with Grados, so on-ear is not problem for me (I also find it cooler), but others opinions may vary.
 
Stylistically, I wouldn't be caught dead in public with the NADs on my head, and I have similar feelings for the PM-3, though it's not AS bad. The M50Xs just straddle the line, while the P7s and M2s look cool enough to just pass, though I think B&W could have done a better job making the hinge sit closer to your temple.
 
Price wise, it's a mixed bag. Here in Canada, the regular market prices for these are as follows:
 
$200 - M50X
 
$279 - HP50
$289 - T51i
 
$399 - B&W P7
$399 - M2
 
$499 - PM-3 (approx, based on USD)
 
I separated them to illustrate the rather deep price divide between these - there's a full $300 between the cheapest and most expensive pair that we're discussing. That's a lot of dough - and I'm just not sure that I'm convinced it's necessarily money well spent, especially considering the open vs closed performance gap I mentioned earlier. This also makes me realize that the M50X is a lot of headphone for the money!
 
I purchased my T51is on sale for $219, which I think makes them a best value at that price. The more I think about, the more I think the questions you have to ask are these:
 
Does the P7/M2 sound $200 better than the M50X?
Does the PM-3 sound $300 better?
How much am I willing to pay for lesser sonics in a closed design (vs open), just to get portability?
Can I actually get value out of an expensive, high performance closed can?
 
I realize that obviously there will always be those who want a no-compromise portable solution with the best possible sonics, but the more I listen to these, the more I realize that I prefer every pair of open cans I own to any of these options. Obviously, that opinion is formed from the wingback chair in my listening room, without any outside sounds to detract from my experience. In an outside environment, open cans obviously won't work, however regardless of how well a closed can isolates, you're always going to hear some outside sound, which is going to affect perceived sound quality.
 
I guess what I'm wondering is how much I'm willing to pay to get lesser sonics just for increased portability/functionality? And with outside noise as a factor in my opinion of sound quality, how much more do I actually get from a more expensive pair of closed cans? And more importantly - are we putting enough emphasis on isolation when we listen to these? If I like the sound from a certain pair the best, but that sound is completely washed out when I leave my house due to poor isolation, does that actually make them sonically superior? It's worth a thought.. And is why I really appreciate MH rating isolation ability in his original post 

 
Anyway, my mini-rant aside (err, sorry) I have the NADs and P7s in hand, but have only had a chance to really try them on and check them out - no listening yet. The PM-3s and M2s are still connected and burning in and I'll have some more sound thoughts this evening or tomorrow.
 
Cheers!

 

[Leviticus]

 
Cool...please let us know.

 
I totally forgot to share my impressions with you. Received the cable one week ago with my new ZX2. The cable has outstandingly good build quality, I don't think
that one will ever be able to unintentionally break or destroy this cable. It adds a luxurious feeling to your entire rig. In terms of sound quality, this silver plated copper cable renders the sound a bit brighter than the stock cable does. It seems that this a common observation among owners of silver (plated) cables. I like the sound signature of this cable, but it's not better than the stock cable.
 
On top of that, I think the sound gains a bit of clarity through the new cable. But probably it does not. Anyway, I can highly recommend this cable since it looks awesome and will probably last in perpetuity.
 
Here are some pictures: 
 
 
 

 
 

 

[digitalzed]

   
I totally forgot to share my impressions with you. Received the cable one week ago with my new ZX2. The cable has outstandingly good build quality, I don't think
that one will ever be able to unintentionally break or destroy this cable. It adds a luxurious feeling to your entire rig. In terms of sound quality, this silver plated copper cable renders the sound a bit brighter than the stock cable does. It seems that this a common observation among owners of silver (plated) cables. I like the sound signature of this cable, but it's not better than the stock cable.
 
On top of that, I think the sound gains a bit of clarity through the new cable. But probably it does not. Anyway, I can highly recommend this cable since it looks awesome and will probably last in perpetuity.
 
Here are some pictures: 
 
 
 

 
 

What cable is that?

 

[Leviticus]

 
What cable is that?

http://www.ebay.de/itm/281224828374?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&var=580265456885&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

[digitalzed]

  http://www.ebay.de/itm/281224828374?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&var=580265456885&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Thanks Leviticus.

 

[KT66]

Every morning I look at my portable on ear arsenal,I ask the following "who wants to go out to play today?"

ES7
ES10 (esw11 pads)
Vmoda XS
Amperior
T50p
DT1350
T70p

And nine times out of ten it's the DT1350 that puts his hands up first.

After 3 years they are still my go to with 901-minibox or DX90/Lehmann Traveller.

Yes I heard the T51p and to me its not flat and has coloured bass.
DT1350 still the king

 

[politbureau]

Every morning I look at my portable on ear arsenal,I ask the following "who wants to go out to play today?"

ES7
ES10 (esw11 pads)
Vmoda XS
Amperior
T50p
DT1350
T70p

And nine times out of ten it's the DT1350 that puts his hands up first.

After 3 years they are still my go to with 901-minibox or DX90/Lehmann Traveller.

Yes I heard the T51p and to me its not flat and has coloured bass.
DT1350 still the king

I think this is a really interesting perspective, and one I fight with myself about regularly - I actually prefer a more exciting, less accurate headphone for portable use, as the non-neutral presentation helps dynamically overcome ambient noises and provide more psycho-acoustic isolation. Mind you, my portable use is almost exclusively walking and in elevated volume environments, not a quiet office environment like some. In the latter case, I can certainly see a use for an accurate, closed portable.
 
I agree the T51 is not flat, and the bass is not necessarily 'colored,' but not entirely accurate either - this is what makes the sound so addictive to my ears, particularly when using portable. The presentation helps me get into the music more.
 
I think it's funny you mention the DT1350... I used to have a pre-facelift pair, and they bored the hell out of me! Out and about they seemed flat, un-engaging, veiled and downright meh. I remember the first time I used them, I strapped them on, connected them to my portable amp and iPhone, and took my dogs for a walk. When I got home I literally took them off and threw them onto the counter. I was that frustrated by how boring the sound was. After some careful listening at home I realized they were actually quite neutral and detailed, but since I wanted an engaging portable set of on-ears, they didn't last. I remember at the time feeling like the DT1350s sounded as if I had a bad head cold, lol. Plus the higher impedance was a deal breaker, as I eventually ditched my portable amp, and they are not iDevice friendly.
 
This is what I love about HF - different perspectives on the same topic! Cheers
 
P.S. How do you like the T70ps? Can you compare how they sound to the T51s or even the T1s? I have access to a used pair, but can't audition them first. Thanks!