COMPARISON / REVIEW (Part Deux) : A tale of two Sennheisers – HD600 vs HD650

[kman1211]

Well I got back my old Sennheiser HD 545 and I'm comparing the two. I'm surprised how similar they sound to the HD 600. They really are of the same family. The HD 545 has a channel dropout issue, so I put it's driver baffle in the HD 600 frame and it seems to of fixed the issue. I put the HD 600 drivers in the HD 545 frame and it became more comfortable due to the HD 545's wider headband and lesser clamp. The HD 545 is a bit brighter, more spacious, and leaner than the HD 600 sonically. This has some advantages as the HD 545 sounds clearer and more beautiful in some aspects. The HD 600 sounds darker, warmer, and deeper. Both are very smooth up top. I need to listen to both more on numerous genres to see if I can note any refinement differences as I only compared them on a couple songs so far. They are closer than I thought. The different housings don't seem to make much if any sonic difference to the HD 600.
 


Left: HD 600 Driver. Right: HD 545 Driver.

 

[Brooko]

For those who were interested, I finished my T1 vs HD800 comparison last night.  2nd post below it looks at HD600 vs HD800.  Thanks again to Rizki for making it all possible.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/742673/comparison-review-a-tale-of-two-flagships-t1-vs-hd800

 

[heishiro]

  I received my 650's a couple of months ago, but really have only listened to it for about 10 minutes. First impressions was, wow, these are really warm and slightly congested. What happened to the treble sparkle? They were way warmer than I thought they would be (I tend to like a warm and euphoric sound, and always thought the 650s would be up my alley a lot more than the 600s, but this was way too much even for me). But I expect them to open up with some more burn in.

 
your 650 is better now? how was the treble?

 

[K.T.]

   
your 650 is better now? how was the treble?

 
Hi, Heishiro.
 
I'm sorry to report that my time with the 650 ground to a halt shortly after that brief experience.
 
No, I didn't get rid of the 650s. Simply that between 12+ hour work days, 6 days a week, and trying to have some quality time with the girlfriend, it leaves me precious little time to isolate myself on headphones. So after I put the 650's down, I haven't had a chance to listen to them again.
 
Right about that time, I also started to rehab my old Berning Micro-ZOTL with different capacitors, carbon resistors, PEC pot, etc. And the 650's really aren't a good match for this amp, so I've been listening to my AKG Q701's recently, as I tweak it.
 
I must say, this amp was good in its day, but today's amps give better performance, especially considering the price.
 
For example, my Asgard 2 is much more versatile and satisfying. Even my JDS Labs CMOYBB 18V running MUSES01 chips off of a 24V wall wart gives me more satisfaction. The Micro-ZOTL is a lot pickier, and I can't say I've ever gotten a headphone pairing that brings me total satisfaction with it.
 
Actually, that is not true. For whatever reason, the HD580s were a really good match with it. Really organic sound, and had a certain rightness where other cans sounded off in some regard. But definitely on the warm, tubey side of things.
 
But I will keep you updated with the 650s once I get back to them.

 

[heishiro]

@ K.T.
 
Sad to hear that 12 hours of work per day and we are on the same boat.
When i audition the 600 and 650 i really cannot hear a treble spark on 650, i find it too dark
for my music taste, thats why i go and buy the 600 right now im enjoying it gracefully!

 

[62ohm]

Alright, I have just found something interesting. Purrin of Head-Fi wrote this about the HD650 (not on Head-Fi):
"Darker with laid back upper mids compared to HD600. Make sure you have newer silver driver version. The older driver versions are supposed to sound more veiled."
 
This is probably why I don't hear any veil with the HD650 anymore - because the newer ones doesn't have any veil.

 

[Brooko]

  This is probably why I don't hear any veil with the HD650 anymore - because the newer ones doesn't have any veil.

 
Concur with this ^^

 

[62ohm]

Though IMO it can be a good thing, or a bad thing depending on what you need it for. Now, without the veil I imagine there would be very little incentive for people to own both - they are just too similar.

 

[K.T.]

   
your 650 is better now? how was the treble?

 
Hey, guys. So I finally got the chance to run in the 650s some more. Here's what I found:
 
Yeah, the treble opened up. It sounds correctly balanced now. I'm quite pleased.
 
Actually, I'm quite dumbstruck. These 650s sound a LOT better than my almost 20 year old 600s. I'm enjoying them right off the bat. They are so much more transparent and lucid than the old 600s. There's more of a sense of natural sounding swing, and none of that tightness/stiffness that plagued my experience with the 600s for so long. The 650s are sounding fun, and I'm really pleasantly bewildered at how much more transparent and lucid they are. The 600s sound thick and a bit one dimensional by comparison.
 
My guess is that the modern 650s and 600s have benefited from whatever refinements Sennheiser has worked into them since they first came out. And that the sound has evolved for the better because of it. That's just a guess.
 
Or maybe I got a bad sounding sample of the 600s when I initially bought them.
 
Wow. Now I'm curious to hear a modern pair of 600s to see how they sound. Maybe I have to get a pair to replace my old ones.
 
Anyhow, I'm happy with the 650s.

 

[Head1]

I think Sennheiser should make all the revisions publicly known and named. If you're buying second hand you can't be sure which version you have. If you're reading comments from previous years they could well be irrelevant to the current production.

 

[Hifihedgehog]

  The one thing I'm really curious about is whether there was a larger sonic difference between older 650 and 600s, which has since been changed by the gradual evolution of drivers.  Either way though, I agree with you KT - these two headphones are definitely Hi-Fi - we've only recently started referring to them as mid-fi as the cost of TOTL has escalated.  On performance, both the HD600 and HD650 deserve their place close to the flagships, especially if you also take value into account.
 
I have an HD800 with me for the week, and currently comparing that to the T1. Should have my HD600 back next week, then will also compare the two Sennheisers (HD800/600).  That should be an interesting proposition.

This last summer, I had the chance to demo the entire Sennheiser audiophile line excluding the HD700 at Sweetwater, a music superstore and online distributor here in the states. Just so everyone understands where my preferences lie, my favorites were the HD800 followed closely by the HD600 with the HD650 a very distant third. So, on a whim, I purchased an HD600 as a Christmas gift on eBay just because of how much I liked them and they turned out to be the older black-screened version. Fortunately, these HD600's sound very much like, if not exactly the same as, the silver-screened HD600 I had demoed following my auditory memory. Minimally, I can safely guarantee that my black-screened HD600 is nowhere near as dark as the silver-screened HD650 I had demoed. So, putting together everyone's impressions including mine so far:
 
Brightness: Silver-screened HD600 >= Black-screened HD600 > Silver-screened HD650 > Black-screened HD650
 
Has anyone found something different when comparing any older and newer models?
 
EDIT: Cross-posting this in the "Sennheiser HD 600 Impressions" thread for more complete coverage.

 

[Brooko]

 
This last summer, I had the chance to demo the entire Sennheiser audiophile line excluding the HD700 at Sweetwater, a music superstore and online distributor here in the states. Just so everyone understands where my preferences lie, my favorites were the HD800 followed closely by the HD600 with the HD650 a very distant third. So, on a whim, I purchased an HD600 as a Christmas gift on eBay just because of how much I liked them and they turned out to be the older black-screened version. Fortunately, these HD600's sound very much like, if not exactly the same as, the silver-screened HD600 I had demoed following my auditory memory. Minimally, I can safely guarantee that my black-screened HD600 is nowhere near as dark as the silver-screened HD650 I had demoed. So, putting together everyone's impressions including mine so far:
 
Brightness: Silver-screened HD600 >= Black-screened HD600 > Silver-screened HD650 > Black-screened HD650
 
Has anyone found something different when comparing any older and newer models?
 
EDIT: Cross-posting this in the "Sennheiser HD 600 Impressions" thread for more complete coverage.

 
I'd agree with the first 3 - haven't heard the black screened HD650, but understand it may have been a little darker than the new versions.  I will say that there is far less difference between the HD600 and HD650 than what I was expecting (and what I remembered from my early comparisons a few years ago).  The 600s definitely have more upper mid-range and lower treble presence, but Rizki's HD650 wasn't all that dark - and I could have easily lived with it.

 

[Hifihedgehog]

   
I'd agree with the first 3 - haven't heard the black screened HD650, but understand it may have been a little darker than the new versions.  I will say that there is far less difference between the HD600 and HD650 than what I was expecting (and what I remembered from my early comparisons a few years ago).  The 600s definitely have more upper mid-range and lower treble presence, but Rizki's HD650 wasn't all that dark - and I could have easily lived with it.

I haven't heard a black-screened HD 650 either. I just thought I saw earlier in the thread that you did or someone else did, which is why I placed it like that in the line-up. It is so interesting how we all hear differently. I hear the upper midrange and lower treble boost around 4KHz but I also hear something else as well. To my ears, the HD600 (silver- and black-screened) has a lot more presence and clarity in the upper and extreme treble. That is, from 12 KHz to 16 KHz, I detect a lot more definition and crispness, meaning more air around female vocals and better sizzle and purr in cymbals. FWIW and YMMV, I hear a 7 dB difference that at least I can readily hear and make the Sennheiser HD650's veiled for me. I am 23 years old and I have over 10 years playing the flute. It could be because I am very attuned to metallic overtones and still very sensitive to the uppermost treble.

 

[K.T.]

 
This last summer, I had the chance to demo the entire Sennheiser audiophile line excluding the HD700 at Sweetwater, a music superstore and online distributor here in the states. Just so everyone understands where my preferences lie, my favorites were the HD800 followed closely by the HD600 with the HD650 a very distant third. So, on a whim, I purchased an HD600 as a Christmas gift on eBay just because of how much I liked them and they turned out to be the older black-screened version. Fortunately, these HD600's sound very much like, if not exactly the same as, the silver-screened HD600 I had demoed following my auditory memory. Minimally, I can safely guarantee that my black-screened HD600 is nowhere near as dark as the silver-screened HD650 I had demoed. So, putting together everyone's impressions including mine so far:
 
Brightness: Silver-screened HD600 >= Black-screened HD600 > Silver-screened HD650 > Black-screened HD650
 
Has anyone found something different when comparing any older and newer models?
 
EDIT: Cross-posting this in the "Sennheiser HD 600 Impressions" thread for more complete coverage.

 
It's kind of mysterious. I have an old pair of HD600 back from the late 90's/early 00's. Near when they first came out.
 
Compared to a new pair of HD650s I got several months ago, the old HD600 is less lucid and more opaque . It sounds a bit thick, and not in a positive way comparatively. The newer HD650 sound so much more transparent.
 
Of course, who knows how many changes Sennheiser has made over the years? I suspect that even among black screened versions, there is probably a wide range of variation in how they sound. Just guessing, but I wouldn't be surprised.
 
I do have a new pair of HD600 coming. I'm very curious to compare those to my old HD600, and then my new HD650.
 
So far, though, I'm enjoying my new HD650 more than my old HD600.

 

[Brooko]

 
I haven't heard a black-screened HD 650 either. I just thought I saw earlier in the thread that you did or someone else did, which is why I placed it like that in the line-up. It is so interesting how we all hear differently. I hear the upper midrange and lower treble boost around 4KHz but I also hear something else as well. To my ears, the HD600 (silver- and black-screened) has a lot more presence and clarity in the upper and extreme treble. That is, from 12 KHz to 16 KHz, I detect a lot more definition and crispness, meaning more air around female vocals and better sizzle and purr in cymbals. FWIW and YMMV, I hear a 7 dB difference that at least I can readily hear and make the Sennheiser HD650's veiled for me. I am 23 years old and I have over 10 years playing the flute. It could be because I am very attuned to metallic overtones and still very sensitive to the uppermost treble.

 
I guess I should correct that earlier statement.  I have heard the original black screen HD650 when comparing them to the original blackscreen HD600 years ago.  I went with the HD600 back then. Problem is that it was years ago, I didn't volume match, and it wasn't a very accurate assessment by the standards I apply now.  The dark screen (650) could well be darker and more veiled - that is the way I heard it back then anyway.
 
When comparing the modern silver screened drivers side by side (volume matched), I agree with you that the 600 has more upper treble air.  What surprised me was that there wasn't a huge difference in the bass overall - and I was expecting that there would be.
 
For me personally - I could live with either the modern HD600 or HD650.  Both were excellent.