Classical music discussion, what do you like?
Sep 24, 2018 at 7:08 AM Post #1,561 of 2,850
Hello P,
while you have been listening to Tannhäuser in chunks I have been doing the same with Tristan und Isolde the last couple of days, just finished listening to sides 4-6 on my 5 LP box from EMI P1972 Karajan and the BPO with singers John Vickers Tristan and Helga Dernesch as Isolde and Christa Ludwig as Brangäne and Karl Ridderbusch as King Marke, Walter Berry as Kurvenal and Peter Schreier both as a young Seaman and a Shepherd.
I also have Tristan und Isolde in the classic DGG live take from Bayreuth with Birgit Nilsson.
But I much prefer Karajan's Tristan over DGG's dynamically compressed, thin and wiry take from Bayreuth.
As always imho nobody did "the long line" better than Karajan, and a long line it sure is with this 4 hours plus Opera.
And Helga Dernesch was also a very capable Isolde in her day,not only Birgit Nilsson.
Moreover the superb recording by Wolgang Gülich for EMI, made in the Philharmonie is very coherent and realistic with singers in a real acoustic instead of singing lips pressed close to a mic.
Strongly recommended.
In digital form only available as cd as far as I know.
I have Tannhäuser both on LPs,DGG Birgit Nilsson and the live Janowski set from Pentatone as download.
Incidentally the Janowski was also recorded in the Philharmonie.
But to my taste Tristan is a better work and true milestone in music.
Cheers Christer

Hi C.,

I too have been binging somewhat on Wagner. Boosting my Wagner library, which was quite lean.
Been listening to Lohengrin and Dutchman. Very nice. I must say, his Ring has lost its luster with me -- I tend to like the music more so than the story lines, which drag too much in the Ring.
Fr Lohengrin (in addtn to the Kempe), I've gotten into Kubelik (with Janowitz!) and a recent one with Mark Elder and the Concertgebouw in glorious sound. With Dutchman, it's Bohm/BR/Jones, Stewart, Klemperer/NewPhil, and of course Dohnanyi/VPO. Really Wagner's most accessible opera.

As for Tristan, that's difficult imo. It's Bohm and Solti for me, with both having Nilsson, who is primo Wagner, for me. Carlo Kleiber/Dresden too.
Somehow Karajan doesn't do it for me. The one exception is Meistersinger/Dresden -- he really got it right, with a perfect cast, and a performance for the ages. It's the only MN that I have, no more.

cheers
P.



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Sep 26, 2018 at 10:56 AM Post #1,567 of 2,850
Hi C.,

I too have been binging somewhat on Wagner. Boosting my Wagner library, which was quite lean.
Been listening to Lohengrin and Dutchman. Very nice. I must say, his Ring has lost its luster with me -- I tend to like the music more so than the story lines, which drag too much in the Ring.
Fr Lohengrin (in addtn to the Kempe), I've gotten into Kubelik (with Janowitz!) and a recent one with Mark Elder and the Concertgebouw in glorious sound. With Dutchman, it's Bohm/BR/Jones, Stewart, Klemperer/NewPhil, and of course Dohnanyi/VPO. Really Wagner's most accessible opera.

As for Tristan, that's difficult imo. It's Bohm and Solti for me, with both having Nilsson, who is primo Wagner, for me. Carlo Kleiber/Dresden too.
Somehow Karajan doesn't do it for me. The one exception is Meistersinger/Dresden -- he really got it right, with a perfect cast, and a performance for the ages. It's the only MN that I have, no more.

cheers
P.








Hello P,
Wow some nice covers there. The Tannhäuser cover is l beautiful. I wonder if that is before or after he sings "zu fiel, zu fiel".Is that a Philips release or EMI?
The only one of those I have is the Karajan/ Die Meistersinger from Dresden on LPs.
An old favourite of mine that has been in my collection since the 70s, for this work. But I also have the live Pentatone Janowski from Berlin as hi res download.
I used to like Die Meistersinger quite a lot when I was younger, but lately I find myself agreeing with Toscanini who is rumoured to have said "Troppo C majjore!" about it.
As far as Parsifal is concerned I am gradually getting into it also in chunks via Gergiev and the Mariinsky on a 5 disc SACD set.
But it can get a bit pompous and religious at times.
There are some parts that I really love though.
A classic Parsifal worth mentioning is the live Bayreuth/Knappertsbusch one on Philips LPs in surprisingly good sound for 1962 by the way.
Clearly better than both DGG's Tristan from there in 1966 and also their take of Der Fliegende Holländer imho.
Hope you enjoy the Karajan Tristan when it arrives.

Cheers Christer
 
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Sep 26, 2018 at 11:18 AM Post #1,568 of 2,850
Gotta love these Europeans!


LOL!
Any idea where it is from?
My guess is somewhere in Germany by one of the many egomaniactic/idiotic modern German opera producers who seem to make it their life project to mock Opera in general and Wagner in particular!
My God those Germans and their tight rubber/ leather!
Monthy Python couldn't have done it better.
I once had the pleasure to first flatter and then to his surprise, tell one of them straight to his face: What exactly has all the Gestapo leather got to do with this Opera?
I'll never forget his blushing red face!
And that was actually Mozart's la Clemenza di Tito he had just produced in Prague. Not even Wagner.

Poor Wagner. No wonder great conductors like Karajan and Janowski turned their backs on Bayreuth already in the 50s when things there turned really bad.
Karajan told them they had to write their own new music for their weird stage settings and productions,since what they did had no connection to the music their grandfather had composed!
I wonder what he and Wagner himself who acually left VERY CLEAR instructions how he wanted his works done would say of this mockery?
Cheers Christer
 
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Sep 26, 2018 at 1:18 PM Post #1,569 of 2,850
Hi Christer,
That video was from a performance in Spain, I believe; Zubin Mehta conducting. Trust those Spaniards to really spice things up with Wagner. I'm with you on "modern" productions of Wagner; some I can't stand. The Salzburg Mozart operas a few yrs ago tried to modernize Don Giovanni with women strutting around in two-piece lingerie and even topless. Sensual, etc, but some of the other "innovations" with Mozart were just nonsensical and took away too much of the glorious period costumes, to be replaced by staid suits. La Traviata with Netrebko a few yrs ago really minimized the stage props. It was an ugly production. Not sure why anyone would pay $$$ to see it. That's why I've always enjoyed the Met -- at least in the era of Levine. Glorious stage sets.

Those Wagner LP sets certainly have attractive cover art. Methinks it's a long-gone art.

btw, have you listened to the Welsh Opera recording of Tristan? Apparently, it's very good. Goodall conducting, with an apparently sublime Isolde sung by Linda Esther Gray.

Looking forward to hearing the CDs of Herbie's Tristan; it's on the way here. I may even skip acquiring Bohm's 1966 Bayreuth with Nilsson and Windgassen. The SQ there wasn't optimal imho.

cheers
Pete
 
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Sep 26, 2018 at 1:20 PM Post #1,570 of 2,850
Birgit Nilsson had a great sense of humor. I found these from Wikipedia.


Nilsson did not get along with famous conductor Herbert von Karajan. Once when rehearsing on stage at the Vienna Staatsoper, her string of pearls broke. While helping her retrieve them, Karajan asked, "Are these real pearls bought with your La Scala fees?" Nilsson replied, "No, these are fake pearls bought with your Vienna Staatsoper fees." When Nilsson first arrived at the Met to rehearse the production of Die Walküre conducted by Karajan, she said, "Nu, where's Herbie?" And Karajan once sent Nilsson a cable several pages long, proposing in great detail a variety of projects, different dates and operas. Nilsson cabled back: "Busy. Birgit."[10]

The Swedish photographer Lennart Nilsson, who became world famous for his documentation of pregnancy from conception to birth, was asked by the magazine Life to photograph Birgit Nilsson's vocal cords as she sang high C. Birgit Nilsson turned the proposal down with the words "Your photographer wants me to swallow the tiny camera so he can take pictures of the vocal cord [sic]. I don't want that, since I know where it has been before."[11]

There was a healthy competition between Nilsson and tenor Franco Corelli as to who could hold the high C the longest in Act II of Turandot. In one tour performance, after she outlasted him on the high C, he stormed off to Rudolf Bing during the next intermission, saying that he was not going to continue the performance. Bing, who knew how to handle Corelli's tantrums, suggested that he retaliate by biting Nilsson on the neck when Calaf kisses Turandot in Act III. Corelli didn't bite her but he was so delighted with the idea that he told her about Bing's suggestion. She then cabled Bing, informing him she had to cancel the next two performances because she had contracted rabies.[13][14][15][16][17]

When Nilsson started singing Aida at the Met, soprano Zinka Milanov was miffed as Aida had theretofore been her role. After one performance in which Nilsson was singing, Milanov commandeered and drove off in the Rolls Royce Nilsson had hired for after the performance. When asked about this afterwards, Milanov said, "If Madame Nilsson takes my roles, I must take her Rolls."[18]

The secret to singing Isolde, she said, was "comfortable shoes."[19] After a disagreement with the Australian soprano Joan Sutherland, Nilsson was asked if she thought Sutherland's famous bouffant hairdo was real. She answered: "I don't know. I haven't pulled it yet."[20]

Once, asked what was her favourite role, she answered: "Isolde made me famous. Turandot made me rich". When long-time Metropolitan Opera director Sir Rudolf Bing was asked if she was difficult, he reportedly said, "Not at all. You put enough money in, and a glorious voice comes out".[21] When Nilsson was preparing her taxes and was asked if she had any dependents, she replied, "Yes, just one, Rudolf Bing"
 
Sep 26, 2018 at 1:26 PM Post #1,571 of 2,850
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Sep 26, 2018 at 2:31 PM Post #1,572 of 2,850
Birgit Nilsson had a great sense of humor. I found these from Wikipedia.


Nilsson did not get along with famous conductor Herbert von Karajan. Once when rehearsing on stage at the Vienna Staatsoper, her string of pearls broke. While helping her retrieve them, Karajan asked, "Are these real pearls bought with your La Scala fees?" Nilsson replied, "No, these are fake pearls bought with your Vienna Staatsoper fees." When Nilsson first arrived at the Met to rehearse the production of Die Walküre conducted by Karajan, she said, "Nu, where's Herbie?" And Karajan once sent Nilsson a cable several pages long, proposing in great detail a variety of projects, different dates and operas. Nilsson cabled back: "Busy. Birgit."[10]

The Swedish photographer Lennart Nilsson, who became world famous for his documentation of pregnancy from conception to birth, was asked by the magazine Life to photograph Birgit Nilsson's vocal cords as she sang high C. Birgit Nilsson turned the proposal down with the words "Your photographer wants me to swallow the tiny camera so he can take pictures of the vocal cord [sic]. I don't want that, since I know where it has been before."[11]

There was a healthy competition between Nilsson and tenor Franco Corelli as to who could hold the high C the longest in Act II of Turandot. In one tour performance, after she outlasted him on the high C, he stormed off to Rudolf Bing during the next intermission, saying that he was not going to continue the performance. Bing, who knew how to handle Corelli's tantrums, suggested that he retaliate by biting Nilsson on the neck when Calaf kisses Turandot in Act III. Corelli didn't bite her but he was so delighted with the idea that he told her about Bing's suggestion. She then cabled Bing, informing him she had to cancel the next two performances because she had contracted rabies.[13][14][15][16][17]

When Nilsson started singing Aida at the Met, soprano Zinka Milanov was miffed as Aida had theretofore been her role. After one performance in which Nilsson was singing, Milanov commandeered and drove off in the Rolls Royce Nilsson had hired for after the performance. When asked about this afterwards, Milanov said, "If Madame Nilsson takes my roles, I must take her Rolls."[18]

The secret to singing Isolde, she said, was "comfortable shoes."[19] After a disagreement with the Australian soprano Joan Sutherland, Nilsson was asked if she thought Sutherland's famous bouffant hairdo was real. She answered: "I don't know. I haven't pulled it yet."[20]

Once, asked what was her favourite role, she answered: "Isolde made me famous. Turandot made me rich". When long-time Metropolitan Opera director Sir Rudolf Bing was asked if she was difficult, he reportedly said, "Not at all. You put enough money in, and a glorious voice comes out".[21] When Nilsson was preparing her taxes and was asked if she had any dependents, she replied, "Yes, just one, Rudolf Bing"

Nice quotes,I have her autobiography with lots of photos and some of the anecdotes you mention plus plenty of others.
About Salome she said: "There are singers who can do the dance of the Seven Veils well and there are are those who can actually sing the role well. I belong in the latter category."
The early 60s DECCA Birgit Nilsson Salome with Solti is worth hearing imho.
There is a famous photo of her with a miner's hard hat with headlamp and all she wore backstage for fun as a comment on Karajan's dark Walküre production at the Met in the 60s.
But in her autobiography she also admitted that Karajan could be a very good Opera conductor indeed, although they did not get along too well.
Wish I had been there but I was too young alas.
But I heard her live a couple of times at the Opera house in Stockholm much later.
This year her 100th anniversary is celebrated with some tempting archive recordings from various Opera houses and conductors being released.
From the recordings I have DECCA captured her voice best imho,although she had a thing or two to say about "the DECCA boys" as she called them, too.
 
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Sep 26, 2018 at 2:48 PM Post #1,573 of 2,850
Hi Christer,
That video was from a performance in Spain, I believe; Zubin Mehta conducting. Trust those Spaniards to really spice things up with Wagner. I'm with you on "modern" productions of Wagner; some I can't stand. The Salzburg Mozart operas a few yrs ago tried to modernize Don Giovanni with women strutting around in two-piece lingerie and even topless. Sensual, etc, but some of the other "innovations" with Mozart were just nonsensical and took away too much of the glorious period costumes, to be replaced by staid suits. La Traviata with Netrebko a few yrs ago really minimized the stage props. It was an ugly production. Not sure why anyone would pay $$$ to see it. That's why I've always enjoyed the Met -- at least in the era of Levine. Glorious stage sets.

Those Wagner LP sets certainly have attractive cover art. Methinks it's a long-gone art.

btw, have you listened to the Welsh Opera recording of Tristan? Apparently, it's very good. Goodall conducting, with an apparently sublime Isolde sung by Linda Esther Gray.

Looking forward to hearing the CDs of Herbie's Tristan; it's on the way here. I may even skip acquiring Bohm's 1966 Bayreuth with Nilsson and Windgassen. The SQ there wasn't optimal imho.

cheers
Pete
Oh yes that is Zubin Metha, no doubt, and the playing and singing is not bad.
But the production is absolutely ridiculous imho.
Regarding Goodall,
I vaguely remember his recordings. But weren't they in English?
I think they even performed at the Proms.
My Italian is very patchy and mainly limited to getting the plot now and then without reading the libretto with Verdi and all.
But my German is much better and I just could not cope with Wagner sung in English.
Cheers Christer
 
Sep 26, 2018 at 3:16 PM Post #1,574 of 2,850
Oh yes that is Zubin Metha, no doubt, and the playing and singing is not bad.
But the production is absolutely ridiculous imho.
Regarding Goodall,
I vaguely remember his recordings. But weren't they in English?
I think they even performed at the Proms.
My Italian is very patchy and mainly limited to getting the plot now and then without reading the libretto with Verdi and all.
But my German is much better and I just could not cope with Wagner sung in English.
My best ever production of Don giovanni was actually in the same Opera House where that German producer had mauled Mozart's Tito, the Estates Opera House where it was originally performed by Mozart himself.
The production I saw and photographed several times was basically a replica of the orginal production. I even got permission to photograph Mozart's orginal performing score at the Conservatory in connection with those productions.
Cheers Christer
 
Sep 26, 2018 at 3:20 PM Post #1,575 of 2,850
Oh yes that is Zubin Metha, no doubt, and the playing and singing is not bad.

Regarding Goodall,
I vaguely remember his recordings. But weren't they in English?

Cheers Christer


The Goodall recording of Tristan is actually in German, this time.

Karajan: Yes, he was an excellent opera conductor -- apparently, he knew the scores inside-out, in his head. Phenomenal memory apparently.

There's a recording of Die Walkure (1968) from the Met, with the PERFECT cast -- Nilsson, Vickers, Stewart, Ludwig, Rysanek. The conductor was an obscure fellow, Berislav Klobucar. It's on Sony; sound is mono, but the singing is reputedly awesome.

https://www.google.ca/search?source...1j0i10k1j0i22i30k1j0i22i10i30k1.0.Jfi4Smu2xVI

https://www.amazon.ca/Wagner-Die-Wa...pID=51cAC19Z-NL&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

cheers
Pete
 

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