[Slaphead]

I've not been doing much listening lately, but yesterday I put the 1812 overture (Karajan) through the Mojo, just standard redbook FLAC, and I've never heard it rendered so dynamic and detailed before.

The problem that I have is that I'm beginning to feel that the Mojo is actually being held back by my Beyer DT880s, meaning I might be on the lookout for an original model T1 as the prices have come down considerably. I just get the feeling that the 880s aren't really letting go sometimes, it's as if they're holding back on me.

 

[sharon124]

Hi,
 
I have one question.
From amerzon i found that "3.5mm Male to 4-pin XLR Female Balanced Headphone TRS Audio Adapter"(http://www.amazon.com/3-5mm-Female-Balanced-Headphone-Adapter/dp/B00KQRSL12/ref=pd_cp_23_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=1ZWADJPJZ7RZ91YHSJXW).
 
If i use this to connect Chord Mojo and then connect Senn HD800S balance cable,Is it really worth?
Can i get real sound quality improvement by using this?
Can i get realy balance output?
 
thanks so much for the support.

 

[x RELIC x]

Hi,

I have one question.
From amerzon i found that "3.5mm Male to 4-pin XLR Female Balanced Headphone TRS Audio Adapter"(http://www.amazon.com/3-5mm-Female-Balanced-Headphone-Adapter/dp/B00KQRSL12/ref=pd_cp_23_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=1ZWADJPJZ7RZ91YHSJXW).

If i use this to connect Chord Mojo and then connect Senn HD800S balance cable,Is it really worth?
Can i get real sound quality improvement by using this?
Can i get realy balance output?

thanks so much for the support.

Zero benefit, it's just convenient.

 

[salla45]

I've not been doing much listening lately, but yesterday I put the 1812 overture (Karajan) through the Mojo, just standard redbook FLAC, and I've never heard it rendered so dynamic and detailed before.

The problem that I have is that I'm beginning to feel that the Mojo is actually being held back by my Beyer DT880s, meaning I might be on the lookout for an original model T1 as the prices have come down considerably. I just get the feeling that the 880s aren't really letting go sometimes, it's as if they're holding back on me.

Great Mojo Moment there!
 
I have the original T1's and can indeed testify to their amazing synergy with the Mojo. I can wholeheartedly recommend them! Superb with classical. I'm listening to a whole lot more now, and from composers with whom I have hitherto had no acquaintance, eg Tchaikovsky. 
 
I have been really getting into the 6th Symphony; I have a SACD recording of it by Gergiev, and its really amazing.
 
I don't know the T880's however and cannot say how they differ over the T1's but I can safely say I am extremely happy with what I have and don't feel in the least the need to shop around or even listen to anything further. 
 
My initial thoughts upon first hearing the T1+Mojo were that it was almost a case of detail overload, but I soon became accustomed to it!
 
The over-riding feeling is purity, delicacy, detail, texture, lightness of touch, and a distance from the music which entirely lends the combo to extended and unfatiguing listening. There's also a sense of logic to whatever you are listening to and ability to pinpoint instruments and notice and follow musical strands. Oh and the bass is amazing, chameleon-like.
 
I bought my T1's at a "bargain" price of 580chf or a similar amount in USD, and the T1.2's were just too much, at around 900. I'm very pleased I took this "end game" plunge!
 
Best of luck with your hunting for a good deal... I think you'll be more than satisfied.

 

[salla45]

I've not been doing much listening lately, but yesterday I put the 1812 overture (Karajan) through the Mojo, just standard redbook FLAC, and I've never heard it rendered so dynamic and detailed before.

The problem that I have is that I'm beginning to feel that the Mojo is actually being held back by my Beyer DT880s, meaning I might be on the lookout for an original model T1 as the prices have come down considerably. I just get the feeling that the 880s aren't really letting go sometimes, it's as if they're holding back on me.

PS I notice you're in Zurich - I got mine from K55 also in Zurich, I believe - Lorena there was very helpful. I think you can also visit their shop and test it out perhaps! http://www.k55.ch/

 

[jmills8]

I've not been doing much listening lately, but yesterday I put the 1812 overture (Karajan) through the Mojo, just standard redbook FLAC, and I've never heard it rendered so dynamic and detailed before.

The problem that I have is that I'm beginning to feel that the Mojo is actually being held back by my Beyer DT880s, meaning I might be on the lookout for an original model T1 as the prices have come down considerably. I just get the feeling that the 880s aren't really letting go sometimes, it's as if they're holding back on me.

Thats a good way of listening. Dont listen to music for two weeks and when you get back to listening to music the "new toy syndrome" kicks in for a week or two.

 

[Slaphead]

PS I notice you're in Zurich - I got mine from K55 also in Zurich, I believe - Lorena there was very helpful. I think you can also visit their shop and test it out perhaps! http://www.k55.ch/

LOL I get almost everything head-fi wise from K55. Fantastic little shop where you can demo just about everything they have.

 

[Slaphead]

Thats a good way of listening. Dont listen to music for two weeks and when you get back to listening to music the "new toy syndrome" kicks in for a week or two.

It's actually a good way of not listening

But yes, I know exactly what you mean, and that's exactly what I found yesterday.

 

[jmills8]

It's actually a good way of not listening

But yes, I know exactly what you mean, and that's exactly what I found yesterday.

switch headphones every four months.

 

[salla45]

LOL I get almost everything head-fi wise from K55. Fantastic little shop where you can demo just about everything they have.

Great! I only have bought mail-order from them, but a few things now, Mojo, T1, ifi Nano, Fiio X3ii.
 
I live too far from anywhere to jump in the car for a "quick-listen" unfortunately. However, luckily my purchases have been OK, even without prior listening.
 
If I get some time in Zurich I will be sure to check out the shop.

 

[sharon124]

Zero benefit, it's just convenient.

Thanks..
Is any other method ( by connecting some device or whatever) to get balance output from mojo to feed hd800s?

 

[Slaphead]

Great! I only have bought mail-order from them, but a few things now, Mojo, T1, ifi Nano, Fiio X3ii.

I live too far from anywhere to jump in the car for a "quick-listen" unfortunately. However, luckily my purchases have been OK, even without prior listening.

If I get some time in Zurich I will be sure to check out the shop.

I live no more than 15 minutes away by bus/tram, so I always go in store rather than buy online - it's very dangerous for my wallet having them in such proximity to me . I've never had a problem with them either, but I do have a pair of AKG N20 in-ears that I have to get back to them as I lose the left channel intermittently - not their fault I hasten to add.

 

[masterpfa]

Thanks..
Is any other method ( by connecting some device or whatever) to get balance output from mojo to feed hd800s?

I do not know of any such device to achieve what you are asking for.
Other than the Mod some chap is doing to a Mojo which changes one of the Headphone out to a TRRS balanced, (I cannot remember what it's called but a Google search for Balanced Mojo output should find the person and mod I'm referring too.) I cannot think of any other especially with the HD800S in mind

 

[x RELIC x]

Thanks..
Is any other method ( by connecting some device or whatever) to get balance output from mojo to feed hd800s?

Fundamentally no. There's no point. Mojo's designed to be single ended and has much better measurements than just being balanced would get you. Now, you can add an amplifier that has balanced output if it accepts a single ended input, but unless it has a phase splitter (like the Cavalli Liquid Carbon) it's essentially the same as the cable you were looking at. The only thing besides drive power that an external amp will add to Mojo's output is perhaps a different colour to the sound, and more noise and distortions (which may or may not be audible). Please read the quotes in the third post of this thread for the reason why Rob Watts, the designer of the Mojo, has not made it balanced. There is a quote specifically about balanced designs.

Edit: Found it for you. Please, balanced is NOT the saviour of audio. Maybe the saviour of some designs but it isn't always the best way to design gear.
Bold emphasis added by me.

Spoiler: Rob's quotes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Watts

Quote:
Originally Posted by agisthos
Rob you should give a definitive 'why SE is better' explanation. Get it over with, because many (most) audiophiles have been biased towards balanced and are not going to understand where you are coming from.

One good argument I heard from the Densen founder (Thomas Sillesen) is that each half of the signwave runs through a series of components that will always have tolerances different from each other, so when combining the signal they will not ever match, causing an increase in distortion (of some kind I cannot remember).

Charles Hanson, of Ayre, who is a proponent of fully balanced equipment, has even stated that for pure sound quality SE will always sound better, but this is on the bench, where the power supply and analog signal stages can be kept physically apart. When putting them in a box he prefers balanced.
Well this is a complex subject, and sometimes a balanced connection does sound better than single ended (SE) - in a pre-power context - but it depends upon the environment, and the pre and power and the interconnect. But the downside of balanced is that you are doubling the number of analogue components in the direct signal path, and this degrades transparency. In my experience every passive component is audible, every metal to metal interface (including solder joints - I once had a lot of fun listening to solder) has an impact - in case of metal/metal interfaces it degrades detail resolution and the perception of depth. So going balanced will have a cost in transparency.

In DAC design, going balanced is essential with silicon design; there is simply too much substrate noise and other effects not too. But with discrete DAC's you do not need to worry about this, so going SE on a discrete DAC is possible, and is how all my DAC's are done. But differential operation hides certain problems (notably reference circuit) that has serious SQ effects; so going SE means those problems are exposed, which forces one to solve the issue fundamentally. In short, to make SE work you have to solve many more problems, but the result of solving those problems solves SQ issues than differential operation hides when you do measurements.

Rob

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Watts
Component count is very important for transparency. Doubling the number of parts in the direct signal path does degrade depth perception and detail resolution.

But there is another problem with balanced operation. Imagine a balanced differential in, differential out amplifier. The input stage is normally a differential pair (maybe cascoded) with a constant current source. Now the input stage is free to move up and down to accommodate the common mode voltage - but the input stage common mode impedance is non linear, and if the common mode voltage has a signal component (it always will have due to component tolerances) then this will create a signal dependent error current, thereby generating distortion. Unfortunately, the negative feedback loop of the amplifier can't correct for this distortion as it can't see the error on the summing nodes. So there will always be a limit to the performance. With SE operation, this problem does not occur, as the differential input stage is clamped to ground.

Now DAC designers are well aware of this - that's why all high performance DAC's use two single ended I to V converters from the current OP of the DAC's, then use a differential to SE converter to create the voltage OP. There are other reasons for doing this as well, as the DAC requires a very low impedance virtual ground for low distortion, and you can only get this using dual SE amps - another problem is RF and its much easier to decouple SE than differentially - this in turn creates a lot more noise floor modulation, making it sound less smooth.

But for me the most important is transparency. I had an amp that had two modes - differential or SE - listening in balanced mode flattened the sound stage depth dramatically,and it sounded harder, less smooth. That said, there are circumstances when balanced operation can be better than SE, for example when you are looking at connecting a pre-amp to a power amp, and what is best depends upon particular circumstances. In short, if SE operation is noisy, try balanced.

Rob

Edit2: Please, don't get me wrong, I don't really have anything against balanced gear. I own two balanced amps myself because I like the amps, not just because they are balanced. If looking to increase the power from the Mojo then a balanced amp may do that. If you think balanced in itself is going to improve the audio then that is not going to happen by default.

 

[salla45]

I live no more than 15 minutes away by bus/tram, so I always go in store rather than buy online - it's very dangerous for my wallet having them in such proximity to me

. I've never had a problem with them either, but I do have a pair of AKG N20 in-ears that I have to get back to them as I lose the left channel intermittently - not their fault I hasten to add.

I can imagine. Bad enough for me with the online options, hah!
 
Now you have a good reason to audition the T1's, get those N20's back to them, pronto!!
 
Ps...another headfier on this thread has the T1.2's and says they don't sound noticeably better than the T1's so even if you audition the T1.2, in case they don't have the T1's available for demo any longer, but they may well have the T1.2's.
 
In any case, I'd be interested to hear your comments about how the T880's fair with the mojo against the T1's. 
 
By the way, I found this comparison, if you haven't already read it, maybe interesting:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/727739/comparison-review-beyerdynamic-s-siblings-the-classic-dt880-vs-the-flagship-t1
 
Sorry for increasingly off topic! Thats the last of it, promise!!