Chord Hugo
Feb 14, 2015 at 12:33 PM Post #9,616 of 15,694
today played flac converted from dsd . those flac sounded a bit less loud as compared to DSD played directly thru hugo. does Hugo apply +6 db gain inside during processing because while converting flac from dsd, I did not apply any gain .
 
Feb 14, 2015 at 9:57 PM Post #9,617 of 15,694
I would love to hear some music that was recorded through a hugo style device. Do you think a longer tap length ADC  would be audible on normal DAC's?
I agree with your earlier statement that recorded music doesn't sound exactly like live music. Playing an acoustic guitar sounds totally different from any recording I've heard of one. 
 I would love for someone to make it a lot closer. Thanks for your contributions on the DAC end of the chain. I hope you get time to address the other end. Does Chord have any interest in making studio equipment?
 
 
Quote:
  Yes the ADC anti aliasing filters have a tap length requirement, and the requirements are "fairly" simple - linear phase, aliasing set to a level that is no longer audible. But if you set that to say -144 dB (24 bit accuracy), you need about 2K taps or more - which is much greater than normally employed. ADC chips do have significant aliasing, and normally the chip designer says its OK as the errors are at say 21 kHz. What they fail to realize is that that is audible, as it will change the time domain linearity, which is audible.
 
Now the mathematics is pretty clear - a DAC interpolation filter needs an infinite tap length, infinite oversampling FIR filter to perfectly reconstruct the original bandwidth limited signal. So I will keep pushing the tap length, and oversampling rate until one can no longer hear the difference. For the ADC filter, the maths simply states that at >= FS/2 the level is zero, i.e. there is no signal at 22.05 kHz and greater for 44.1 kHz. The fun will start when I actually listen to these filters, and find out what stop band attenuation is really needed. But even if 200 dB was good enough, then that would not need enormous tap lengths.
 
The pulse array ADC project has been running for 5 years so far, so its quite well advanced.
 
Rob   

 
Feb 15, 2015 at 12:24 AM Post #9,618 of 15,694
today played flac converted from dsd . those flac sounded a bit less loud as compared to DSD played directly thru hugo. does Hugo apply +6 db gain inside during processing because while converting flac from dsd, I did not apply any gain .

DSD modulators become unstable and increase distortion above -6dBFS, its one of the many problems that one bit delta sigma modulation (DSM or PDM) has. In the DSD filters with Hugo, the 0dBFS to -6dbFS  is preserved as an overload margin, as some recordings could briefly use these levels. But as you note, the DSD level has been reduced by -6dB. To overcome this, I seamlessly increase the volume control internally by +6dB, so you preserve the gain and yet maintain the potential DSD overload headroom as well.
 
Rob 
 
Feb 15, 2015 at 12:47 AM Post #9,619 of 15,694
DSD modulators become unstable and increase distortion above -6dBFS, its one of the many problems that one bit delta sigma modulation (DSM or PDM) has. In the DSD filters with Hugo, the 0dBFS to -6dbFS  is preserved as an overload margin, as some recordings could briefly use these levels. But as you note, the DSD level has been reduced by -6dB. To overcome this, I seamlessly increase the volume control internally by +6dB, so you preserve the gain and yet maintain the potential DSD overload headroom as well.

Rob 


Hi Rob. On my main system I genrally have to increase volume on DSD file playback vs PCM by 5-7db is this the reason?

Thank you
 
Feb 15, 2015 at 1:03 AM Post #9,620 of 15,694
I would love to hear some music that was recorded through a hugo style device. Do you think a longer tap length ADC  would be audible on normal DAC's?
I agree with your earlier statement that recorded music doesn't sound exactly like live music. Playing an acoustic guitar sounds totally different from any recording I've heard of one. 
 I would love for someone to make it a lot closer. Thanks for your contributions on the DAC end of the chain. I hope you get time to address the other end. Does Chord have any interest in making studio equipment?

Yes I think recordings will sound better with longer tap lengths - simply because I can eliminate aliasing. But there are other benefits, notably noise floor modulation. Current ADC's have a lot of noise floor modulation, and I have been able to eliminate that problem. This will make it sound smoother and more natural, and the lack of aliasing should improve timing perception. But I have not started listening tests yet, so still early days.
 
Chord initially started gaining traction with the pro audio; successfully selling to Abbey Road, BBC, Royal Opera House, and other studios around the World. Now Hugo's are going into studios, something I had not expected!
 
Personally, it has always been my goal to go from microphone to loudspeaker, so I can try to radically close the gap from the sound of live un-amplified music to recorded audio. Having said that, I have been amazed over last 18 months at how much musical merit there exists in current recordings - the replay side has not done it justice.
 
Rob     
 
Feb 15, 2015 at 1:08 AM Post #9,621 of 15,694
Hi Rob. On my main system I genrally have to increase volume on DSD file playback vs PCM by 5-7db is this the reason?

Thank you

It shouldn't be if you are using Hugo. We created test tones, converted them to DSD, then matched the volume from the PCM to the DSD. It also gave a way to measure the DSD performance too. With the +6dB volume boost, the levels were identical.
 
Rob
 
Feb 15, 2015 at 1:15 AM Post #9,622 of 15,694
  It shouldn't be if you are using Hugo. We created test tones, converted them to DSD, then matched the volume from the PCM to the DSD. It also gave a way to measure the DSD performance too. With the +6dB volume boost, the levels were identical.
 
Rob

No that one is not the Hugo. I didn't feel the need on my Hugo - you already wrote it into the firmware to compensate! Very nice consideration!!
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top