Chord Hugo
Feb 18, 2017 at 8:01 AM Post #14,716 of 15,688
hugo by itself is very robust. battery if constantly plugged should not be affected theoretically as after full charge there is only trickle charge. but problem with keeping hugo constantly on is that the batteries are constantly subjected to high temperatures . this does not affect hugo circuit but affects batteries in long run specially in countries with hot summers . so hugo batteries don't die imho due to constant plug in but constant high temperatures. best solution is to switch of hugo and unplug the charger when not in use. also don't cover hugo while in operation.

 
I was wondering about the temperature effect of charge and play on the Mojo, which does get warm. However turning the Mojo on its side when charging and playing helps a lot. However, since I mostly use the Mojo when not charging at the same time, it's not really an issue for me.
 
Additionally though, I was led to believe that keeping the battery in a state of full charge also stresses it. I have no idea if this is true but there are websites explaining battery health.
 
Anyway my Mojo gets constant charge and discharge cycles. I would recommend that. However some Hugo owners are reporting they use their Hugo plugged in all the time and no problems yet. If it's true that battery replacement is about £40. Then in my opinion it is worth leaving the Hugo plugged in, and risk a battery fail.
 
I say this because I thought the Hugo battery did not get as hot as the Mojo battery. (Specifically when charging and playing.) The Mojo does get toasty so it is not really an option. Having said that, I have used a previous Mojo plugged in and charging all the time. This was through a hot summer and it never shut down due to heat safety circuits. It did get hot though.
 
Overall though for desktop only use, the Mojo is OK not plugged in all the time. Since I run it on battery I remember to turn it off when not in use. (Only on the rare occasion like last night I forgot to charge it for today, is it low battery. Therefor right now it's stood on its side charging and playing: Jimi Hendrix - Greatest Hits.) Whereas almost every night I usually remember to put it on charge.
 
Feb 18, 2017 at 8:32 AM Post #14,717 of 15,688
Harmonix re:  "burn in time".
 
"Well I'm not sure 36 hour burn in time is enough but things seem to start to settle in now (bass was a bit over the top initially) so here are the first impressions."
 
Would you explain what you understand by  "burn in time". Is this a subjective, or objective appraisal and
how does one calculate this phenomena?
 
Feb 18, 2017 at 8:55 AM Post #14,718 of 15,688
  Harmonix re:  "burn in time".
 
"Well I'm not sure 36 hour burn in time is enough but things seem to start to settle in now (bass was a bit over the top initially) so here are the first impressions."
 
Would you explain what you understand by  "burn in time". Is this a sujective, or objective appraisal and
how does one calculate this phenomena?

 
Sorry but there is no calculation possible.
 
@Rob Watts states that Chord DACs do not experience a physical burn in, but is a firm believer in 'brain burn in', as the users brain gradually gets used to processing the extra detail in the music. Think of it a bit like the brain neurons gradually rewiring some of them, as the brain trains itself to decode the more detailed music signals it is receiving from the ears. In this respect the burn in is just the same as the brain training itself when you learn a new skill or similar.
As such the effects of this burn in are a bit subjective, and cannot be calculated. There does seem to be a variation in how much burn in is experienced by individuals, some users say that the Mojo/Hugo sounds excellent after 30s and stays the same, but at the other end of the spectrum there are users who state that originally the Mojo/Hugo sounded unfocused at first, but gradually over several days of listening the fine detail in the music gradually emerges out of the fog. 
 
Feb 18, 2017 at 9:11 AM Post #14,720 of 15,688
  Would you then agree this phenomena is subjective? 

 
Burn-in is most definitely real with transducers like headphones or speakers. Amplifiers are often quoted needing time to burn-in. Some DAPs are said to need burn-in.
 
My own perspective with the Chord DACs is with the Mojo. It took about ten days before I started to notice that it was better all round than my Meridian Explorer. Until ten days I liked that it had more detail only. After ten days it just got better over time. It took many weeks though before I was totally understood the Mojo. It's a clean, clear, smooth, detailed, and right sounding DAC.
 
Feb 18, 2017 at 9:30 AM Post #14,722 of 15,688
If as you state, "Burn-in is most definitely real", how does one calculate the burn in time, and the math to support your
claim?


'Burn in' of course may not be the item of equipment but could be the human brain which merely needs time to acclimatise and recalibrate itself to the new sound.

I once saw a programme where people were given devices to wear which inverted what they were seeing. i.e. Their view was turned upside down. After a time the brain reprogrammed itself to correct the way up that people were seeing. If we can do that then our brains can certainly manipulate the sounds that we think we hear and indeed alter them.

I can't give you math for that but it may be at least as likely an explanation fur burn in than that the equipment is somehow burning in.
 
Feb 18, 2017 at 10:13 AM Post #14,723 of 15,688
mplifiers
 
Forgive me if my posts appear to be nit picking, I am a new member of this forum, and imagine my surprise when I see the comments posted which are on the whole subjective.My professional career was with Scanning Electron Microscopes, and Semiconductor wavelength spectrometers. EDAX.
 
I have built a numer of amplifiers over the years mostly the JLH class A amplifier and it´s derivatives.in the intervening years since since I became interested in High Fidelity music I have yet to find any scientific explanations why HiFi components might have a certain "sound", unsurprisingly neither has anyone else, (to my knowledge), and although many make these claims, "Burn-in is most definitely real", none have ever provided any evidence which is falsifiable.
 
Feb 18, 2017 at 11:10 AM Post #14,724 of 15,688
'Burn in' of course may not be the item of equipment but could be the human brain which merely needs time to acclimatise and recalibrate itself to the new sound.

I once saw a programme where people were given devices to wear which inverted what they were seeing. i.e. Their view was turned upside down. After a time the brain reprogrammed itself to correct the way up that people were seeing. If we can do that then our brains can certainly manipulate the sounds that we think we hear and indeed alter them.

I can't give you math for that but it may be at least as likely an explanation fur burn in than that the equipment is somehow burning in.

 
There are similar videos for the 'rubber hand experiment' where a person has one of their hands stroked, but on the screen they are shown a view of a rubber hand being stroked (both sets of stroking are synchronised). Then suddenly after 15 minutes, the rubber hand is hit with a hammer, but the people instinctively pull their real hand out of the way.
 
The hypothesis that was proposed that this is evidence of neuroplasticity, and that after only 15 minutes of this 'training' the brain can already fool itself into believing that the rubber hand is part of the persons body. Note evidence and not proof, but still interesting evidence.
 
For audiophiles, the question then becomes if the brain is capable of starting to rewire or adjust to sensory inputs after just 15 minutes, is burn-in just another example of this type of adjustment happening every time they listen to a new piece of hifi equipment, or possibly every time they listen to a new band or artist and gradually find them liking the type of music?
 
Sorry if this seems a bit 'sound science' but the questions that burn-in raises are interesting.
 
Feb 18, 2017 at 11:26 AM Post #14,725 of 15,688
  Would you then agree this phenomena is subjective? I don't really understand what you mean by a "bit"
subjective?

 
I mean that plenty of people claim that either they or their equipment experiences burn-in, but I have never seen any figures published for brain burn-in. So as long as there is no hard data, the phenomenon must be subjective.
 
If you want an equation for brain burn-in, the nearest that I can propose is that at the top-level, the effect could reasonably be expected to be proportional to the number of hours of music that the owner has listened to their new equipment. However there is the complication that the pattern of listening could have a bearing on the level of burn in - by that I mean would the user experience the same level of burn-in, if the listened for 8 hours in one session, or alternatively for 2 hours a day for 4 consecutive days (which would give the brain great opportunity to replenish nutrients and rewire more during the intervals)?
 
So even if my proposal is valid, the equation would not be simple, and you would need to collect data from thousands of new DAC users, to derive any answers that were statistically significant.
 
Feb 18, 2017 at 12:49 PM Post #14,726 of 15,688
  If as you state, "Burn-in is most definitely real", how does one calculate the burn in time, and the math to support your
claim?

 
  mplifiers
 
Forgive me if my posts appear to be nit picking, I am a new member of this forum, and imagine my surprise when I see the comments posted which are on the whole subjective.My professional career was with Scanning Electron Microscopes, and Semiconductor wavelength spectrometers. EDAX.

 
Then google it.
 
Feb 18, 2017 at 4:58 PM Post #14,727 of 15,688
  Would you then agree this phenomena is subjective? I don't really understand what you mean by a "bit"
subjective?

“There’s nothin’ for us in Belfast/The Pound’s old, and that’s a pity/OK, so there’s the Trident in Bangor/And then you walk back to the city.”
 
I love rock n roll and I like my Hugo and I find the constant "sciencification" to be such a buzzkill, just relax and get lost in what ever music brings you happiness! 
 
Feb 19, 2017 at 1:14 PM Post #14,729 of 15,688
  Does this mean you prefer a long, or short, "burn in time"? But I agree, there is little science here.


If I am right and the 'burn in' is merely (mostly) the human brain reprogramming itself then it isn't a matter of preferring, it will happen in due course anyway at whatever rate it pleases.
 
Feb 19, 2017 at 1:23 PM Post #14,730 of 15,688
 
If I am right and the 'burn in' is merely (mostly) the human brain reprogramming itself then it isn't a matter of preferring, it will happen in due course anyway at whatever rate it pleases.

I agree with your assessment.  I do, in my opinion, believe in burn in with dynamic drivers on headphones, but that's about the extent of my belief other than, as you say, brain burn in.
 

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