[x RELIC x]

I am in the group of people who in some occasions happened to enjoy the Hugo 2 better with the addition of an amp, namely my Pathos Aurium.
However you are introducing a very valid point in saying that the source track is a huge factor.
In my experience this is very true and I often find myself switching from one configuration to the other depending on the track.
I am too ignorant on the matter to understand why is this but it is indeed something I clearly feel.

/OT

Much of the issue with many modern source files is what’s called the loudness wars where quiet and soft sounds are elevated in order to sound punchy but that also kills the impact of areas that should be punchy and loud. This compresses the dynamic range and flattens the music. Along with this dynamic compression usually comes distortions that I find absolutely unlistenable. Adele’s albums are an example of distortions heard when she hits the powerful notes. I can’t listen to her albums at all and I find it funny when others refer to her albums as reference music. ; ) Another example is Amy Winehouse’s albums. Terrible dynamic compression and distortion.

The authors who master the albums are on a damned trend that doesn’t seem to be stopping. Pretty much after 1990 it’s been a downward spiral for the quality of album masters due to the loudness wars. It may sound good driving in your car, but for dynamic range and fidelity it’s terrible.

A good read:

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/ca/ca-academy/dynamic-range-no-quiet-no-loud-r643/


/OT

 

[doraymon]

/OT

Much of the issue with many modern source files is what’s called the loudness wars where quiet and soft sounds are elevated in order to sound punchy but that also kills the impact of areas that should be punchy and loud. This compresses the dynamic range and flattens the music. Along with this dynamic compression usually comes distortions that I find absolutely unlistenable. Adele’s albums are an example of distortions heard when she hits the powerful notes. I can’t listen to her albums at all and I find it funny when others refer to her albums as reference music. ; ) Another example is Amy Winehouse’s albums. Terrible dynamic compression and distortion.

The authors who master the albums are on a damned trend that doesn’t seem to be stopping. Pretty much after 1990 it’s been a downward spiral for the quality of album masters due to the loudness wars. It may sound good driving in your car, but for dynamic range and fidelity it’s terrible.

A good read:

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/ca/ca-academy/dynamic-range-no-quiet-no-loud-r643/


/OT

Yeah I'm familiar with the Loudness War, a damn plague for music enjoyment!
I use Roon and it shows very conveniently the dynamic range of the track being reproduced.

 

[musicmaker]

I think that if anyone prefers the sound of an added amp that is great. Enjoyment is paramount. However, your preferences and assertions don’t apply to all, which is why when some say an amp is required and the amp in the Hugo2 is ‘weak’ you have to understand that it isn’t a universal preference and it certainly isn’t a measurable truth.

If you read what I wrote I did say all of this is subjective of course. It isn't a universal preference just like yours isn't either. Clearly there are folks here that feel the same way I do. To my ears, the headphone out in the H2 did NOT drive even my low impedance phones to the level I've heard from my other systems. It was thin and a bit analytical in comparison lacking body. There are a lot of things I do love about the H2 as a dac so I'm not trying to thrash the product. But if someone tells me this is the end game setup at this price point and everything else is subjective and colored, they are out of touch with reality. Lets please put the marketing and fanboism aside. I for one trust my ears more than marketing datasheets and numbers. As a sidenote, I did not listen to any of the tracks above with the H2. Used my reference tracks I use with all my gear.

 

[x RELIC x]

you are out of touch with reality. Lets please put the marketing and fanboism aside.

I also listen with my ears and am not part of any marketing machine, and frankly am offended you imply such. I also understand the objective reality of the measurements which happens to align with my tastes for fidelity (emphasis - my tastes). I like fidelity (transparency to the source) and measurements are important to me. Might not be for you and that’s fine with me. We can prefer different things and yet we can both understand how moving a transducer actually works.

The terminology of ‘not driving low impedance headphones’ is what I disagree with because objectively and mathematically it’s an inaccurate statement. The drive is fine, you just don’t like it because it doesn’t have the same ‘body’ of other amps whatever the cause for that ‘body’ (tuning, etc.). That’s fine, but please don’t imply anyone who is describing the technicalities as a fanboy. I simply don’t follow repeated myths and misconceptions about how headphones are driven, like a 2W amp output is useful for the majority of headphones. Amp power supply, distortion, implementation, and tuning are important, yes.

A weak anology would be if someone said ‘performance tires add horsepower to a car’ it would be objectively wrong, and I doubt anyone would argue the point. I’m simply trying to help people understand what is happening driving the headphone and have NEVER, EVER said that adding an amp is bad when considering preferences, as I wrote in my post you quoted.

Edit: Regarding the tracks I was replying to GU1DO, not you.

 

[musicmaker]

I also listen with my ears and am not part of any marketing machine, and frankly am offended you imply such. I also understand the objective reality of the measurements which happens to align with my tastes for fidelity (emphasis - my tastes). I like fidelity (transparency to the source) and measurements are important to me. Might not be for you and that’s fine with me. We can prefer different things and yet we can both understand how moving a transducer actually works.

The terminology of ‘not driving low impedance headphones’ is what I disagree with because objectively and mathematically it’s an inaccurate statement. The drive is fine, you just don’t like it because it doesn’t have the same ‘body’ of other amps whatever the cause for that ‘body’ (tuning, etc.). That’s fine, but please don’t imply anyone who is describing the technicalities as a fanboy. I simply don’t follow repeated myths and misconceptions about how headphones are driven, like a 2W amp output is useful for the majority of headphones. Amp power supply, distortion, implementation, and tuning are important, yes.

A weak anology would be if someone said ‘performance tires add horsepower to a car’ it would be objectively wrong, and I doubt anyone would argue the point. I’m simply trying to help people understand what is happening driving the headphone and have NEVER, EVER said that adding an amp is bad when considering preferences, as I wrote in my post you quoted.

Edit: Regarding the tracks I was replying to GU1DO, not you.

I apologize if i offended. Wasnt the intent.

 

[x RELIC x]

I apologize if i offended. Wasnt the intent.

No worries. Perhaps I’m going a little ‘Rain Man’ on the subject. I’ll leave it.

 

[musicmaker]

Driving doesnt equate to volume. It does that fine. It just did not have the authority my home setup does. You keep saying objectively. Please educate me on your objective measure.

 

[doraymon]

I see that you also have the HOLO audio L3, I was looking into that for my desktop setup. How would you compare it to the Hugo 2?

Well are you asking to compare Hugo 2 as a DAC or as a DAC + headphone amp?
I couldn’t yet properly do a real time A/B comparison in any case as for that I would need to hook the Hugo 2 to the SU-1 via coax cable which I don’t have yet.
I did a quick comparison using the Hugo 2 on my MacBook running Audirvana Plus (Focal Clear straight out of the Hugo) vs the same Audirvana streaming to my desktop chain with the Spring L3 and Pathos Aurium DAC.
I have to say that with most of the tracks my preference is clearly on the desktop chain, the main difference being deeper sound stage and sense of 3D and that music seems more “energetic”, engaging and realistic. Similar level of detail.
To be fair to the Hugo 2, let me point out that it Is not yet completely burned in if this makes any difference (only a few hours of life) and also the desktop chain has a cost of $5.5k, so much more than the Hugo!
Edit: the desktop system costs $8k+, not 5.5k... damn, if my wife reads this I’m dead!

 

[kank]

Well are you asking to compare Hugo 2 as a DAC or as a DAC + headphone amp?
I couldn’t yet properly do a real time A/B comparison in any case as for that I would need to hook the Hugo 2 to the SU-1 via coax cable which I don’t have yet.
I did a quick comparison using the Hugo 2 on my MacBook running Audirvana Plus (Focal Clear straight out of the Hugo) vs the same Audirvana streaming to my desktop chain with the Spring L3 and Pathos Aurium DAC.
I have to say that with most of the tracks my preference is clearly on the desktop chain, the main difference being deeper sound stage and sense of 3D and that music seems more “energetic”, engaging and realistic. Similar level of detail.
To be fair to the Hugo 2, let me point out that it Is not yet completely burned in if this makes any difference (only a few hours of life) and also the desktop chain has a cost of $5.5k, so much more than the Hugo!

Yeah, more a DAC to DAC comparison.
I dont think there's a transportable DAC/AMP out there that can rival the HUGO2 at the moment.

 

[doraymon]

Yeah, more a DAC to DAC comparison.
I dont think there's a transportable DAC/AMP out there that can rival the HUGO2 at the moment.

I’m still willing to do a proper comparison but in that case I have to feed both DACs to my amp, which will be ok for the sake of the A/B but will probably alter Hugo’s sound.
I need a coax digital cable that works with Hugo2, I bought a FiiO but hav to return it cause it doesn’t work!

 

[x RELIC x]

Driving doesnt equate to volume. It does that fine. It just did not have the authority my home setup does. You keep saying objectively. Please educate me on your objective measure.

PM sent as to not re-hash the topic in the thread yet again.

 

[Sheep1234]

I've heard there's a hugo 3 coming this year. Is this true or just a rumor? I want to get a hugo 2 but if a newer version comes out i'd wait.

 

[x RELIC x]

I've heard there's a hugo 3 coming this year. Is this true or just a rumor? I want to get a hugo 2 but if a newer version comes out i'd wait.

Not happening, guaranteed fake news.

 

[doraymon]

PM sent as to not re-hash the topic in the thread yet again.

We want to know!
We want to know!

 

[bytor33]

Regarding albums that are very dynamically compressed I've found that the Hugo 2 makes them more palatable than lesser DACs I've used. I expected that opposite, but it hasn't been the case for me as I've upgraded. I think it's not as fatiguing because it separates everything out more. Even though it's still not great that each part of the track is about the same volume, it gives each aspect more room to breathe.