Mar 29, 2025 at 6:36 PM Post #26,851 of 27,068
@Rob Watts In DAVE the pulse array has 20 elements and therefore, as I understand it, an element can be switched on for between 0 and 20 clocks, and each higher-numbered element switches on for the same duration, but offset by one clock. e.g. this is showing three elements (out of 20), and each element switches on for 6 clocks, followed by being off for a further 14 clocks:

Code:
____|------|______________
_____|------|______________
______|------|______________

So all 20 elements are jointly outputting the code for "6", which is effectively -14/20 (-0.7) as a delta, since the pulse array is generating changes, and when less than half the clock cycles are switched on, the elements are signalling a negative delta. If each element was on for 14 clocks that would be a positive 0.7 delta.

Now, if we compare this with say Hugo TT2, which has 10 elements, we can see there's only 10 clocks maximum time for an element to be switched on and the delta is a multiple of one-tenths instead of one-twentieths. So the first implication is that there's more "roughness" in the deltas being produced by TT2, because there's less choice of deltas available.

But in both DAVE and TT2, the pulse array is clocked at 104.25MHz. So, over the same period of time as DAVE (20 clocks) TT2 can produce two coded outputs. For example TT2 can output "3" two times in a row:

Code:
____|---|_______|---|_______
_____|---|_______|---|_______
______|---|_______|---|_______

In both cases, over the duration of 20 clocks, each element is on for 6 clocks. Now it might be preferable not to output the same code twice in a row, so maybe 2 followed by 4 or 4 followed by 2 would work too, depending on the overall gradient (short section of a curve) that's being constructed.

Is this right? What is the downside for TT2's pulse array arrangement? It seems to me that while the "roughness" in TT2 is greater than DAVE since there's half the codes available to use, because it runs "twice as fast" as DAVE, it can output twice as many codes in the same time as DAVE. In other words, the available codes in TT2, when considered over 20 cycles, match those produced by DAVE.
 
Mar 30, 2025 at 1:25 PM Post #26,852 of 27,068
I am curious if anyone here could share impressions from comparing Mola Mola Tambaqui to the Mscaled DAVE?
In my setup Tambaqui sounds better, more musical but without losing any details that DAVE is known for.
It is very engaging (reminded me Linn Selekt DSM).
In case of Linn, its "engagement" caused me a listening fatigue which never happened with DAVE.
 
Mar 30, 2025 at 1:26 PM Post #26,853 of 27,068
@Rob Watts In DAVE the pulse array has 20 elements and therefore, as I understand it, an element can be switched on for between 0 and 20 clocks, and each higher-numbered element switches on for the same duration, but offset by one clock. e.g. this is showing three elements (out of 20), and each element switches on for 6 clocks, followed by being off for a further 14 clocks:

Code:
____|------|______________
_____|------|______________
______|------|______________

So all 20 elements are jointly outputting the code for "6", which is effectively -14/20 (-0.7) as a delta, since the pulse array is generating changes, and when less than half the clock cycles are switched on, the elements are signalling a negative delta. If each element was on for 14 clocks that would be a positive 0.7 delta.

Now, if we compare this with say Hugo TT2, which has 10 elements, we can see there's only 10 clocks maximum time for an element to be switched on and the delta is a multiple of one-tenths instead of one-twentieths. So the first implication is that there's more "roughness" in the deltas being produced by TT2, because there's less choice of deltas available.

But in both DAVE and TT2, the pulse array is clocked at 104.25MHz. So, over the same period of time as DAVE (20 clocks) TT2 can produce two coded outputs. For example TT2 can output "3" two times in a row:

Code:
____|---|_______|---|_______
_____|---|_______|---|_______
______|---|_______|---|_______

In both cases, over the duration of 20 clocks, each element is on for 6 clocks. Now it might be preferable not to output the same code twice in a row, so maybe 2 followed by 4 or 4 followed by 2 would work too, depending on the overall gradient (short section of a curve) that's being constructed.

Is this right? What is the downside for TT2's pulse array arrangement? It seems to me that while the "roughness" in TT2 is greater than DAVE since there's half the codes available to use, because it runs "twice as fast" as DAVE, it can output twice as many codes in the same time as DAVE. In other words, the available codes in TT2, when considered over 20 cycles, match those produced by DAVE.
I was always wondering why there are only 40 pulse area elements in dave and not 100 for example

and why in mojo portable devices there are only 4 of them and not 10-15 per channel
 
Mar 30, 2025 at 2:11 PM Post #26,854 of 27,068
I am curious if anyone here could share impressions from comparing Mola Mola Tambaqui to the Mscaled DAVE?
In my setup Tambaqui sounds better, more musical but without losing any details that DAVE is known for.
It is very engaging (reminded me Linn Selekt DSM).
In case of Linn, its "engagement" caused me a listening fatigue which never happened with DAVE.
Hans Beeukzeuen compared them, he found. The DAVE superior in every way.
 
Mar 30, 2025 at 2:22 PM Post #26,855 of 27,068
how does it work
this is yahoo bids - current price is almost a million yen - with tax it will be about $7000+
why are people willing to pay almost a million yen on yahoo
but none of them are willing to buy dave with head-fi
1743358781367.png
 
Mar 30, 2025 at 2:27 PM Post #26,856 of 27,068
Hans Beeukzeuen compared them, he found. The DAVE superior in every way.
OK, it is one man's opinion, this is why I asked for other first hand's impressions.
I did not find Hans impressions resonating with mine, which is totally fine.
What impressed me with the Tambaqui is that it sounded phenomenal right out of the box, with a PC power cable and no network filtering.
My next step is to throw all my tweaks at it to see if there is anything more it could bring in.
As another data point, Tambaqui blew Grimm MU2 out of the water, in my opinion.
 
Mar 30, 2025 at 2:36 PM Post #26,857 of 27,068
OK, it is one man's opinion, this is why I asked for other first hand's impressions.
I did not find Hans impressions resonating with mine, which is totally fine.
What impressed me with the Tambaqui is that it sounded phenomenal right out of the box, with a PC power cable and no network filtering.
My next step is to throw all my tweaks at it to see if there is anything more it could bring in.
As another data point, Tambaqui blew Grimm MU2 out of the water, in my opinion.
That's great, enjoy the DAC. This hobby is preference, if you find the Mola Mola Tambaqui (or whatever it's called) superior to other DACs, just enjoy it and that's it.
 
Mar 30, 2025 at 3:48 PM Post #26,858 of 27,068
That's great, enjoy the DAC. This hobby is preference, if you find the Mola Mola Tambaqui (or whatever it's called) superior to other DACs, just enjoy it and that's it.
Thanks, but I am still on the fence.
It is not a small change to pay for a product almost 10 years old.
Plus, the company seems to be super niche and kind of stale, not sure they will be around for much longer.
As good as it sounds, I want to make sure it will be worth something few years down the road.
 
Mar 30, 2025 at 6:12 PM Post #26,859 of 27,068
Thanks, but I am still on the fence.
It is not a small change to pay for a product almost 10 years old.
Plus, the company seems to be super niche and kind of stale, not sure they will be around for much longer.
As good as it sounds, I want to make sure it will be worth something few years down the road.
It sounds like you're looking to ditch DAVE and have explored quite a few options. Tambaqui is the end of the road and your preference. Maybe you'd prefer HMS + TT2. I can't remember your history of gear.
 
Mar 31, 2025 at 1:29 AM Post #26,860 of 27,068
@Rob Watts In DAVE the pulse array has 20 elements and therefore, as I understand it, an element can be switched on for between 0 and 20 clocks, and each higher-numbered element switches on for the same duration, but offset by one clock. e.g. this is showing three elements (out of 20), and each element switches on for 6 clocks, followed by being off for a further 14 clocks:

Code:
____|------|______________
_____|------|______________
______|------|______________

So all 20 elements are jointly outputting the code for "6", which is effectively -14/20 (-0.7) as a delta, since the pulse array is generating changes, and when less than half the clock cycles are switched on, the elements are signalling a negative delta. If each element was on for 14 clocks that would be a positive 0.7 delta.

Now, if we compare this with say Hugo TT2, which has 10 elements, we can see there's only 10 clocks maximum time for an element to be switched on and the delta is a multiple of one-tenths instead of one-twentieths. So the first implication is that there's more "roughness" in the deltas being produced by TT2, because there's less choice of deltas available.

But in both DAVE and TT2, the pulse array is clocked at 104.25MHz. So, over the same period of time as DAVE (20 clocks) TT2 can produce two coded outputs. For example TT2 can output "3" two times in a row:

Code:
____|---|_______|---|_______
_____|---|_______|---|_______
______|---|_______|---|_______

In both cases, over the duration of 20 clocks, each element is on for 6 clocks. Now it might be preferable not to output the same code twice in a row, so maybe 2 followed by 4 or 4 followed by 2 would work too, depending on the overall gradient (short section of a curve) that's being constructed.

Is this right? What is the downside for TT2's pulse array arrangement? It seems to me that while the "roughness" in TT2 is greater than DAVE since there's half the codes available to use, because it runs "twice as fast" as DAVE, it can output twice as many codes in the same time as DAVE. In other words, the available codes in TT2, when considered over 20 cycles, match those produced by DAVE.
TT2 doesn't run twice as fast as Dave, that's not how pulse array works. In fact, the full explanation of how pulse array works is considerably more complex - the devil's in the details - and unfortunately those details are propriety. And if I was inclined to fully disclose it, the vast majority of readers here would be bored to tears by my explanation of it!

What is important are the unique benefits pulse array offers against all other conversion techniques - innate absence of noise floor modulation, extremely high small signal amplitude resolution, and extraordinarily high transient timing accuracy. That's why Dave, in spite of being 10 years old in May, has a transparency that all other DACs can't even approach.
 
Mar 31, 2025 at 5:20 AM Post #26,861 of 27,068
It sounds like you're looking to ditch DAVE and have explored quite a few options. Tambaqui is the end of the road and your preference. Maybe you'd prefer HMS + TT2. I can't remember your history of gear.
In fact, I’ve already ditched HMS-DAVE in favor of, please do not laugh, HMS-Mojo2 and never looked back.
This combo retains all the benefits of the DAVE without maddening and frustrating sensitivities to seemingly anything that touches it.
While not actively looking for alternatives, I routinely audition other gear that comes along.
Tambaqui came out of nowhere and I jumped at opportunity to listen to it.
It was very promising at the beginning, but in the end failed to win me over.
Almost a deja vu I’ve experienced with Linn Selekt DSM - engaging, detailed lively sound, but ultimately “digital” and unnatural to my ears.
I pinch myself (and mischievously chuckle) every time Mojo2 leaves another high end DAC in the dust, and there were many by now.
It almost feels I stole something and got away with it.

BTW, for those who think it sounds “better” to me because of the cost savings, I have to disappoint you.
Based on the raving reviews of Tambaqui I was genuinely intrigued by the possibility of getting rid of all my boxes and cables.
I even created a spreadsheet that showed the purchase would pay for itself by selling all that stuff.

One more thing.
After going through all that trouble (building DIY super-cap power supplies for the Mojo2 and OPTO-DX, adding network filters and expensive cables) I wonder if I would be better off just biting the bullet and getting Sean Jacobs kit for the DAVE.
Maybe.
The only reference point I have is that a friend of mine who nudged me to Mojo2 in the first place, came from Farad/DAVE and claimed that Mojo2 wins over that combo (with M Scaler present in both).
 
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Mar 31, 2025 at 6:12 AM Post #26,862 of 27,068
That's why Dave, in spite of being 10 years old in May, has a transparency that all other DACs can't even approach.
2 different reviewers, with 2 different APx555's and 2 different DAVE samples found DAVE measured worse than your other current production DACs.

Goldensound and Amir both showed HugoTT2 measures better than Dave - and not just SINAD but full suite of measurements.

I wonder what they are doing wrong? Obviously not enough wrong to show Hugo TT2 is state of the art today.
 
Mar 31, 2025 at 7:05 AM Post #26,863 of 27,068
2 different reviewers, with 2 different APx555's and 2 different DAVE samples found DAVE measured worse than your other current production DACs.

Goldensound and Amir both showed HugoTT2 measures better than Dave - and not just SINAD but full suite of measurements.

I wonder what they are doing wrong? Obviously not enough wrong to show Hugo TT2 is state of the art today.
Measurements 🫣 , really?
I've both on mscaler, Dave beats TT2 in my setup and my ears. I would sell Dave if it wasn't. But I'm sure other setups and ears might differ, sure thing.
 
Mar 31, 2025 at 7:31 AM Post #26,864 of 27,068
Thanks, but I am still on the fence.
It is not a small change to pay for a product almost 10 years old.
Plus, the company seems to be super niche and kind of stale, not sure they will be around for much longer.
As good as it sounds, I want to make sure it will be worth something few years down the road.
I haven't heard the Tambaqui, but I have heard very expensive DACs like dCS and MSB and I prefer my Rob Watts DACs in every single way possible, I don't even look around anymore, waste of my time. My TT-2 with M scaler checks off every box for me. I have a simple set of tests, does the music sound as real as possible and I'm I excited and emotional about the music? The other DACs don't do that for me.
 
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Mar 31, 2025 at 9:45 AM Post #26,865 of 27,068
In fact, I’ve already ditched HMS-DAVE in favor of, please do not laugh, HMS-Mojo2 and never looked back.
This combo retains all the benefits of the DAVE without maddening and frustrating sensitivities to seemingly anything that touches it.
While not actively looking for alternatives, I routinely audition other gear that comes along.
Tambaqui came out of nowhere and I jumped at opportunity to listen to it.
It was very promising at the beginning, but in the end failed to win me over.
Almost a deja vu I’ve experienced with Linn Selekt DSM - engaging, detailed lively sound, but ultimately “digital” and unnatural to my ears.
I pinch myself (and mischievously chuckle) every time Mojo2 leaves another high end DAC in the dust, and there were many by now.
It almost feels I stole something and got away with it.

BTW, for those who think it sounds “better” to me because of the cost savings, I have to disappoint you.
Based on the raving reviews of Tambaqui I was genuinely intrigued by the possibility of getting rid of all my boxes and cables.
I even created a spreadsheet that showed the purchase would pay for itself by selling all that stuff.

One more thing.
After going through all that trouble (building DIY super-cap power supplies for the Mojo2 and OPTO-DX, adding network filters and expensive cables) I wonder if I would be better off just biting the bullet and getting Sean Jacobs kit for the DAVE.
Maybe.
The only reference point I have is that a friend of mine who nudged me to Mojo2 in the first place, came from Farad/DAVE and claimed that Mojo2 wins over that combo (with M Scaler present in both).
The main strength of your HMS-M2 is thats its a Mscaled setup off grid.

Dave is extra sensitive to mains and input induced RF due to its earth chassis connection being bound to its digital and analog signal groundplane. Thats what also messes up measurements in a poorly setup test environment.

Once you both take it off grid and feed it optical, a new DAC is born that outperforms anything ive heard.

My created battery supply on Dave has proved this to me. Im never going back to Dave on a mains psu anymore. I played 14 hours on one charge last time which is more than enough for me. The only thing left is the aestetics to do soon when the Choral housing arrives.
 

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